EV Public Charging Rip Off and Chaos

DevonCodger

Isn’t it about time someone with a high media profile aggressively championed the burgeoning number of EV drivers over the continuing public EV charging chaos and rip offs that continue in this country? I was recently in Brittany in a similar area to my own in Devon. Six miles away at a McDonald’s there were two 120kw chargers costing €0.30 (25p) per kwh. Although there seemed to be many EVs about, these were always available. In this country I would be paying at least 60p even if I could find an equivalent charger that close to my home. This is more expensive per mile than my similarly sized previous petrol vehicle.
Add to this the ridiculous bunch of cards it is now necessary to carry because suppliers aren’t forced by law to enable payment by standard credit/debit cards at their lowest price which, in my view, they most definitely should be. Then, of course, there is the number and state of repair of the chargers themselves. We are continually being told that the picture is improving but given the above, visiting family members in North Norfolk still looks like an expensive logistical headache. This all requires a deep journalistic dive into profiteering, consumer manipulation and government insouciance.

Postofficehater

I was searching to see if some experienced EV owner could show me the light on this issue but it appears my research was correct :-( I have just literally purchased my 1st EV that is capable of between 190-250 miles depending on temp etc. We visit Cornwall a few times a year at around 240 miles away. I was horrified at the prices on ZapMap for any kind of chargers, be it 7kw up to over 100kw, most being 79p per KW! This is disgusting as I can charge at home for 7p per KW. I don't mind paying a little premium for convenience but this trip would work out more than twice of what it would have cost me in my old diesel vehicle! No wonder the Government can't get people to take EVs up! Rant over. Thanks.

XRS200

Is electricity cheaper in France? 

born_again

Regulation is already in place for contactless terminals.

https://www.chargepoint.com/en-gb/blog/navigating-uk-public-charging-regulations-guide-charge-point-operators#:~:text=Contactless payment.,enhancing convenience for EV users.

Kings Lyn area well provided, Norwich well provided. Including Tesla (open to all) 51p

Did 800 miles around the area in summer no problem. Cost was the same as my HEV last year. Savings are made by home charging rest of year.

Yes we pay more than other countries. But infrastructure is better now, cost will come down in time.

On-the-coast

Electricty may be a little cheaper in France, but imo that's not really the point.

the consumer price of electricity is around 23ppkwh here.  
on a very recent 800 mile round trip i was charged ~156 for Electricity (including the cheap 75khw i picked up at home).   Average charging price was between 79 and 89ppkwh.    (non-tesla btw, with an 80KWh battery).
That's between 3 and 4 times the standard consumer price, and around twice the price pre-fuel crisis.    I've not seen prices drop at all since they all doubled... which makes me wonder if there's no pressure to follow the power generation open market.      
yes i could have paid less and plugged in for 2hrs at each recharge stop, but that's not really feasible on a long trip.
Between the worrys of trying to find a non-blocked public fast charging station, and the pricing it makes long distance travel with an EV a less than enjoyable experience.
BTW i could have done the same journey for £40 less using a petrol powered small car (50mpg average)

I certainly wonder how the free market is really operating when it comes to public EV charging, and I've not managed to find many people talking about it - so thanks OP.

Hoenir

Postofficehater said:

I was searching to see if some experienced EV owner could show me the light on this issue but it appears my research was correct :-( I have just literally purchased my 1st EV that is capable of between 190-250 miles depending on temp etc. We visit Cornwall a few times a year at around 240 miles away. I was horrified at the prices on ZapMap for any kind of chargers, be it 7kw up to over 100kw, most being 79p per KW! This is disgusting as I can charge at home for 7p per KW. I don't mind paying a little premium for convenience but this trip would work out more than twice of what it would have cost me in my old diesel vehicle! No wonder the Government can't get people to take EVs up! Rant over. Thanks.

That's the same logic when people ask why it costs so much to buy a cup of tea or coffee when away from home. The grid infrastructure was already in place at your home. Merely a question of installing a relatively cheap box. 

The future cost of electrification is mind boggling. That's without the question of whether there's enough cheap raw materials available to provide everyone with the electric vehicle they desire. 

knightstyle

Electricity is much cheaper in France and there are some great tariffs available if you reduce your consumption an peak days. 
This is because we UK consumers are subsidising them!  EDF use their profits to hold down prices in France!

Hoenir

knightstyle said:

Electricity is much cheaper in France and there are some great tariffs available if you reduce your consumption an peak days. 
This is because we UK consumers are subsidising them!  EDF use their profits to hold down prices in France!

A simplistic view of EDF which is of course state owned. ( As a side note made in huge losses in 2022). 

daveyjp

The kWH charge also has to include the installation and ongoing operator costs.  A local supermarket appears to be having EV chargers installed.  It has taken about 6 months of construction to install the system and grid connection and still isn't finished.

That's hundreds of thousands of pounds of upfront cost which has to be recouped and from experience anything which involves electricity connections is never cheap.

Keep_pedalling

knightstyle said:

Electricity is much cheaper in France and there are some great tariffs available if you reduce your consumption an peak days. 
This is because we UK consumers are subsidising them!  EDF use their profits to hold down prices in France!

The UK is still heavily dependant on imported fossil fuel to generate much of its electricity, France only 8% was generated that way last year so they are almost self sufficient in their electricity demands. 

MattMattMattUK

DevonCodger said:

Isn’t it about time someone with a high media profile aggressively championed the burgeoning number of EV drivers over the continuing public EV charging chaos and rip offs that continue in this country? I was recently in Brittany in a similar area to my own in Devon. Six miles away at a McDonald’s there were two 120kw chargers costing €0.30 (25p) per kwh. Although there seemed to be many EVs about, these were always available. In this country I would be paying at least 60p even if I could find an equivalent charger that close to my home. This is more expensive per mile than my similarly sized previous petrol vehicle.
Add to this the ridiculous bunch of cards it is now necessary to carry because suppliers aren’t forced by law to enable payment by standard credit/debit cards at their lowest price which, in my view, they most definitely should be. Then, of course, there is the number and state of repair of the chargers themselves. We are continually being told that the picture is improving but given the above, visiting family members in North Norfolk still looks like an expensive logistical headache. This all requires a deep journalistic dive into profiteering, consumer manipulation and government insouciance.

It is not profiteering, it is not consumer manipulation and there are many reasons which complicate direct comparisons.

There are a few fundamental reasons for the cost in the UK, nearly all of the public EV chargers are run off of three-phase power supplies, having these installed generally costs thousands, for the higher capacity ones used for fast chargers they can cost over £100k to be installed, sites like Tesla Superchargers have their own high voltage substation and bringing those to some locations was estimated to be well into six figures and in some cases could have cost over a million. In France the electricity supply is by the state owned supplier, EDF, they provide installations of three phase at a much lower cost (subsidised by the taxpayer) and there are capped costs for EV charging installations as well, so even in remote locations where the actual cost is going to be hundreds of thousands the cost to the EV charging company is only a few thousand at most. UK public EV charging also has VAT applied at 20%, where as France only applies their 5.5% reduced rate to EV charging. 

Other reasons are slightly more complicated, planning for EV charging in France is far more streamlined than in the UK, the network usually has more excess capacity requiring fewer substation upgrades to supply three phase etc. 

If one wants to reduce the difference in end user costs it is fairly simple, taxpayer subsidy. In the UK we have opted for pretty much no subsidy for EV and pretty much nothing for the charging network, where as in France the network is heavily subsidised.