MSE Supercar ownership experience?

Herzlos

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

raptor2004

motorguy said:

chrisw said:

raptor2004 said:

Anything that is RWD, enough power to have fun and maybe a LSD.

Had my fill of going backwards through hedges in the 80s. Anything which keeps all 4 wheels planted on the tarmac is fine by me.

BMW do a very good job of providing RWD fun via an LSD with their M cars.

I went for the M2 as i dont need anything bigger and went for the "OG" rather than the Comp as it sounds so damn good and has a more characterful engine.



Not tail happy at all, unless you want it to be.

Not a supercar by any stretch but a super car.

Be honest do you really own this car? Custard test?

motorguy

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

Herzlos

raptor2004 said:

motorguy said:

chrisw said:

raptor2004 said:

Anything that is RWD, enough power to have fun and maybe a LSD.

Had my fill of going backwards through hedges in the 80s. Anything which keeps all 4 wheels planted on the tarmac is fine by me.

BMW do a very good job of providing RWD fun via an LSD with their M cars.

I went for the M2 as i dont need anything bigger and went for the "OG" rather than the Comp as it sounds so damn good and has a more characterful engine.



Not tail happy at all, unless you want it to be.

Not a supercar by any stretch but a super car.

Be honest do you really own this car? Custard test?

Careful, he's probably asking for a custard test because he's posted this on another group already who are asking him to prove it's his. Or he's blown by irony meter clean off.

No-one else needs you, motorguy, to do a custard test.

motorguy

Herzlos said:

raptor2004 said:

motorguy said:

chrisw said:

raptor2004 said:

Anything that is RWD, enough power to have fun and maybe a LSD.

Had my fill of going backwards through hedges in the 80s. Anything which keeps all 4 wheels planted on the tarmac is fine by me.

BMW do a very good job of providing RWD fun via an LSD with their M cars.

I went for the M2 as i dont need anything bigger and went for the "OG" rather than the Comp as it sounds so damn good and has a more characterful engine.



Not tail happy at all, unless you want it to be.

Not a supercar by any stretch but a super car.

Be honest do you really own this car? Custard test?

Careful, he's probably asking for a custard test because he's posted this on another group already who are asking him to prove it's his. Or he's blown by irony meter clean off.

No-one else needs you, motorguy, to do a custard test.

That did make me laugh out loud.  

Goudy

motorguy said:

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

That's the "experience" though isn't it. The feel and most of that comes down to weight or lack of it.
You can get that in lots of cars, not just supercars.
Weight kills everything, particularly handling.

OK an EV has the punch off the line, but the weight makes it's self known at the first corner.
I had a lowly Zoe for a few months and it left the line pretty quickly but I was soon taught the weight of it at nearly every roundabout.

If all your after is straight line acceleration, swing your leg over a sports bike like the Fireblade, R1 or S1000RR.
There's just nothing to hold them back. Very little weight, very little rolling resistance, very little drag and it's certainly noticeable.

The feeling as they pile on the acceleration is like nothing else, I'm sure a few readers that have nailed one of these (safely on a track) will agree.
There's only the feeling it's the gearing that will eventually hold you up as you cut through the air piling on the speed in massive chunks.
There's just no feeling weight/drag will ever hold the engine/vehicle back which is quite astonishing, they just run out of gearing and bounce off the rev limiter at close to or above 200 mph.

Anyone of these will hit 180 mph in around 15 to 16 seconds. That's three miles a minute in around quarter of a minute.
But we are talking straight line acceleration, show anything with two wheels a corner at speed and it's a different story.
Still a super experience for a lot less than that 458 posted earlier. OK the 458 and it's badge in particular might give you a different experience but will that last?

motorguy

Goudy said:

motorguy said:

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

That's the "experience" though isn't it. The feel and most of that comes down to weight or lack of it.
You can get that in lots of cars, not just supercars.
Weight kills everything, particularly handling.

OK an EV has the punch off the line, but the weight makes it's self known at the first corner.
I had a lowly Zoe for a few months and it left the line pretty quickly but I was soon taught the weight of it at nearly every roundabout.

Its not, no.

Choosing to drive any performance car is about how the car feels, the feedback it gives you, how it sounds, how engaging it is, how it changes gear, how it handles....

The EV's one trick, in terms of being a performance car is the binary on off acceleration with a one gear gearbox.  Theres no engagement.  You may as well be pressing a button on a computer game controller.

I'm not just speaking for my self here.  This is a commonly held view over on Pistonheads also.  No one is chopping in their M4, Porsche, Ferrari, Subaru STi, C63 AMG, etc, etc to get the same or better experience in an EV.

motorguy

Goudy said:

motorguy said:

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

If all your after is straight line acceleration, swing your leg over a sports bike like the Fireblade, R1 or S1000RR.
There's just nothing to hold them back. Very little weight, very little rolling resistance, very little drag and it's certainly noticeable.

The feeling as they pile on the acceleration is like nothing else, I'm sure a few readers that have nailed one of these (safely on a track) will agree.
There's only the feeling it's the gearing that will eventually hold you up as you cut through the air piling on the speed in massive chunks.
There's just no feeling weight/drag will ever hold the engine/vehicle back which is quite astonishing, they just run out of gearing and bounce off the rev limiter at close to or above 200 mph.

Anyone of these will hit 180 mph in around 15 to 16 seconds. That's three miles a minute in around quarter of a minute.
But we are talking straight line acceleration, show anything with two wheels a corner at speed and it's a different story.
Still a super experience for a lot less than that 458 posted earlier. OK the 458 and it's badge in particular might give you a different experience but will that last?

And you're proving my point here.  If the "supercar experience" was purely about straight line speed, then there'd be an awful lot more people chopping in their performance cars for motorbikes, and its simply not happening.

The "supercar experience" / performance car experience is not about how quickly it can get down a straight road, its above the overall driving experience.

Nobody, ever, has said "i've got the money here to buy a Ferrari but i can get the same experience by buying a Fireblade, so i'll buy one of those instead".

Goudy

motorguy said:

Goudy said:

motorguy said:

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

If all your after is straight line acceleration, swing your leg over a sports bike like the Fireblade, R1 or S1000RR.
There's just nothing to hold them back. Very little weight, very little rolling resistance, very little drag and it's certainly noticeable.

The feeling as they pile on the acceleration is like nothing else, I'm sure a few readers that have nailed one of these (safely on a track) will agree.
There's only the feeling it's the gearing that will eventually hold you up as you cut through the air piling on the speed in massive chunks.
There's just no feeling weight/drag will ever hold the engine/vehicle back which is quite astonishing, they just run out of gearing and bounce off the rev limiter at close to or above 200 mph.

Anyone of these will hit 180 mph in around 15 to 16 seconds. That's three miles a minute in around quarter of a minute.
But we are talking straight line acceleration, show anything with two wheels a corner at speed and it's a different story.
Still a super experience for a lot less than that 458 posted earlier. OK the 458 and it's badge in particular might give you a different experience but will that last?

And you're proving my point here.  If the "supercar experience" was purely about straight line speed, then there'd be an awful lot more people chopping in their performance cars for motorbikes, and its simply not happening.

The "supercar experience" / performance car experience is not about how quickly it can get down a straight road, its above the overall driving experience.

Nobody, ever, has said "i've got the money here to buy a Ferrari but i can get the same experience by buying a Fireblade, so i'll buy one of those instead".

I think you need to reread my post.
I made a point about the lack of weight contributing to the feel or experience.
It's why supercars are generally made lighter and lighter out of carbon fibre and other composites while you average car and particularly EV's are made out of heavy elements dug up out of the ground.

I also wrote "IF" it was just about acceleration and not it's "ONLY" about acceleration with regards to sports bikes.
"If" is was, then nothing it going to come close to a sports bike, not even a Veyron hits 180mph in 15 seconds.
I even added in a line about two wheels and corners, which is an altogether different experience, though it's still an experience and quite a super one.

I would also point out your M4, Porsche, Ferrari and C63 are predominately sold with some form of automatic transmission or automated clutch transmissions, therefore lack some of the gearchange experience you suggest.

But you are correct in writing it is how "IT" changes gear rather than how the driver changes gear.

In fact most come with some sort of "Race Start" or "Launch Control" so at times you are at best experiencing what the car is doing rather than experiencing what you are doing with the car, a noteworthy distinction.

Also your examples of supercars is questionable.
I wouldn't class a couple of saloons from BMW, Mercedes and Subaru as supercars they are sports saloons, yet the R1, Fireblade and S1000RR are actually superbikes and are raced in superbike classes.

motorguy

Goudy said:

motorguy said:

Goudy said:

motorguy said:

Herzlos said:

motorguy said:

WellKnownSid said:

2024, a thousand miles on the clock, under 25 grand.  0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  7 year warranty.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409164077361?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=&page=2&postcode=w1d 4dp&price-to=25000&year-from=2022&zero-to-60=TO_4&fromsra

Electric performance cars versus ICE performance cars is like a microwave versus a barbecue.

A microwave may cook a burger quicker from raw, but who wants a microwaved burger rather than a barbecued one?

I have heard that EV's can be an absolute hoot to drive and far faster than you'd credit. Though I have to admit that without the sound it just won't seem right, in the same way that 30mph in 2nd gear feels faster than 30mph in 5th.

They're fast in a straight line but once the buzz wears off of the on / off power they're a bit of a one trick pony.

They're also very heavy which dulls the handling of them.

Theres more to to driving enjoyment than just acceleration.

That said, they are getting "better".  The Cupra Born seems to be a step towards an electric hot hatch.  I quite like it.

I dont think anybody is buying an EV as a drivers car.  

If all your after is straight line acceleration, swing your leg over a sports bike like the Fireblade, R1 or S1000RR.
There's just nothing to hold them back. Very little weight, very little rolling resistance, very little drag and it's certainly noticeable.

The feeling as they pile on the acceleration is like nothing else, I'm sure a few readers that have nailed one of these (safely on a track) will agree.
There's only the feeling it's the gearing that will eventually hold you up as you cut through the air piling on the speed in massive chunks.
There's just no feeling weight/drag will ever hold the engine/vehicle back which is quite astonishing, they just run out of gearing and bounce off the rev limiter at close to or above 200 mph.

Anyone of these will hit 180 mph in around 15 to 16 seconds. That's three miles a minute in around quarter of a minute.
But we are talking straight line acceleration, show anything with two wheels a corner at speed and it's a different story.
Still a super experience for a lot less than that 458 posted earlier. OK the 458 and it's badge in particular might give you a different experience but will that last?

And you're proving my point here.  If the "supercar experience" was purely about straight line speed, then there'd be an awful lot more people chopping in their performance cars for motorbikes, and its simply not happening.

The "supercar experience" / performance car experience is not about how quickly it can get down a straight road, its above the overall driving experience.

Nobody, ever, has said "i've got the money here to buy a Ferrari but i can get the same experience by buying a Fireblade, so i'll buy one of those instead".

I think you need to reread my post.
I made a point about the lack of weight contributing to the feel or experience.
It's why supercars are generally made lighter and lighter out of carbon fibre and other composites while you average car and particularly EV's are made out of heavy elements dug up out of the ground.

I also wrote "IF" it was just about acceleration and not it's "ONLY" about acceleration with regards to sports bikes.
"If" is was, then nothing it going to come close to a sports bike, not even a Veyron hits 180mph in 15 seconds.
I even added in a line about two wheels and corners, which is an altogether different experience, though it's still an experience and quite a super one.

I would also point out your M4, Porsche, Ferrari and C63 are predominately sold with some form of automatic transmission or automated clutch transmissions, therefore lack some of the gearchange experience you suggest.

But you are correct in writing it is how "IT" changes gear rather than how the driver changes gear.

In fact most come with some sort of "Race Start" or "Launch Control" so at times you are at best experiencing what the car is doing rather than experiencing what you are doing with the car, a noteworthy distinction.

Also your examples of supercars is questionable.
I wouldn't class a couple of saloons from BMW, Mercedes and Subaru as supercars they are sports saloons, yet the R1, Fireblade and S1000RR are actually superbikes and are raced in superbike classes.

i think you need to re-read my post.  I never said the BMW, Mercedes or Subarus cars i mentioned were supercars.

With auto / DCT / DSG boxes you still have control over the gear changing if you chose to (usually via paddles), but also have the ability to let the car do it for you - usually through various driving modes.

Either way, the gear changing is adding to the experience, rather than the linear one speed of the EV.

I've launch control on my M2 DCT and never use it.  With an EV you've effectively no choice as the car is doing everything for you.

Either way, an EV is pretty much a one trick pony.  

However, if you think the supercar experience is only about linear straight line acceleration and you can replicate that with an EV, then great.  Go for it.