Invalid Warrant Forced Entry

MP1995

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

I feel like some youtube warrant magna carta responses is where this conversation would go if on Facebook.

In the"real" world it wasn't a warrant where they rifle through your smalls it was just a warrant to get to an internal meter. Surely if it had been tampered with you wouldn't want the risk of an electrical fire or gas leak?

Did it really affect you that much?

You should raise a complaint and get some sort of goodwill gesture through that complaint or escalating to the ombudsman service should you wish.

Still illegal. You can't go around breaking into people's homes with invalid warrants? 

As per the above post it does not necessarily follow it was illegal.

Qyburn

The Police were apparently satisfied the warrant was valid.

MacMickster

Unless the OP is provided with a copy of the warrant then there is absolutely nothing to say that the entry was legal either. Personally I would give those responsible 14 days to provide a copy of the warrant or else I would be escalating this back to the police and wanting an individual to be charged with breaking and entering.

There have been far too many instances lately of powers being abused by large organisations and the "legal niceties" overlooked.

Scot_39

The firm was issued with a warrant to do the job. It was executed.

It is not "your home" you do not own it and as such are certainly not responsible for any major repairs.

It's your landlords.

It is not either of your meters - but the energy suppliers.

The change in ocupancy,  given the reason you think the warrant was issued, seems to me pretty irrelevant.

Edit : Less clear though if a debt payment issue admittedly if should have happened - and can see it might be seen as a stain on your reputation etc.

If you were there to allow access and refused, it may well  have been exercised anyway.  Just as the previous tennant (or less likely landlord) may have failed to grant access.

And at least you know the meter hasn't been tampered with and in an unsafe condition - with either gas or electric - both come with real risks - explosions, fire etc.


And it wasn't surely your property but the landlords that would have sustained any damage - thinking forcing main door or it's locks and cleaning carpets if muddy boots at a push.

If you incurred costs - claim it back from landlord - leave them to claim costs / compensation from firms.

Landlords have the right of entry - it used to even be exercised with no notice - not sure if that still allowed.

As incidentally do the DNOs (responsible for incoming supply - ahead of meters - so if suspected tampering - potentialy their remit) - especially where safety an issue.  And that's not just for the supply to the property - but if a neighbours supply is through the property.

You were simply caught in a likely long time chain - from likely a series of requests for access, refusals, warrant application, installer being authorised, installer executing - potentially several months.

If they changed the meter operation - say from credit to smart prepay - they may even have saved you a few pennies  - its now the cheapest cap at TDCV on average.  But supplier should be able to switch back.

It's really not your fight but your landlords.

Take the apology, move on. 


Edit : just re read the OPs post - and realise it was not the OP that brought up the potential for tampering as cause - but did then seem to confirm the possibility in a later response.  My apologies.

MP1995

Scot_39 said:

The firm was issued with a warrant to do the job. It was executed.

It is not "your home" you do not own it and as such are certainly not responsible for any major repairs.
It's your landlords.

It is not either of your meters - but the energy suppliers.

The change in ocupancy, especially given the reason you think the warrant was issued, seems to me pretty irrelevant.

And at least you know the meter hasn't been tampered with and in an unsafe condition - with either gas or electric - both come with real risks - explosions, fire etc.


And it wasn't surely your property but the landlords that would have sustained any damage - thinking forcing main door and cleaning carpets if muddy boots at a push.

If you incurred costs - claim it back from them - leave them to claim costs / compensation from firms.

Landlords have the right of entry - it used to even be exercised with no notice - not sure if that still allowed.

As incidentally do the DNOs (responsible for incoming supply - ahead of meters - so if suspected tampering - potentialy their remit) - especially where safety an issue.  And that's not just for the supply to the property - but if a neighbours supply is through the property.

You were simply caught in a likely long time chain - from likely a series of requests for access, refusals, warrant application, installer being authorised, installer executing - potentially several months.

If they changed the meter operation - say from credit to smart prepay - they may even have saved you a few pennies  - its now the cheapest cap at TDCV on average.  But supplier should be able to switch back.

It's really not your fight but your landlords.

Take the apology, move on. 

Better than I put it, nicely done, so hopefully won't be scolded for gaslighting by not agreeing with the OP or having feelings for all the other forum members.

You are right as a Tenant this isn't really even the Tenants right to see the warrant potentially? It won't be addressed to them in any way.

MattMattMattUK

MacMickster said:

Unless the OP is provided with a copy of the warrant then there is absolutely nothing to say that the entry was legal either. Personally I would give those responsible 14 days to provide a copy of the warrant or else I would be escalating this back to the police and wanting an individual to be charged with breaking and entering.

That is not how the law works.

Rosetta92

You could perhaps raise a subject access request under data protection provisions asking to see all records about you. https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/ This will give you any records relating to your complaint. If they do not include anything about the original warrant this gives you some evidence that it didn’t relate to you. You should also seek some legal advice - a solicitor’s letter to all parties may get things moving. Perhaps you are in a union and so get free legal cover or have it through your insurers? Otherwise worth speaking to citizens advice. Perhaps trading standards would also be interested in the company that broke in. You may well find you are not the only victim.

Scot_39

Not sure.

If it was bailif turning up to claim goods for debt of a previous tennant - they definitely would - and presenting ID and I guess a copy of rental agreement post dating debts - would see them turn and go.

However if it was the landlords debt - and there were movable assets ?

I have no idea why the OP suspected tampering  - reported cases are far rarer than simple debt issues (a BBC article said crimestoppers seing 900 reports of suspected per month - butvestimate maybe 1/4 million - several millions are known in debt to supplier) - perhaps hinted at when received apology ?

I can see though why regardless it isn't nice to have happen, and the optics of having it done - as if their fault in some way.


Edit : just re read the OPs post - and realise it was not the OP that brought up the potential for tampering as cause -  but did then seem to confirm the possibility in a later response.  My apologies.

MattMattMattUK

Rosetta92 said:

You could perhaps raise a subject access request under data protection provisions asking to see all records about you. https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/ This will give you any records relating to your complaint. If they do not include anything about the original warrant this gives you some evidence that it didn’t relate to you. You should also seek some legal advice - a solicitor’s letter to all parties may get things moving. Perhaps you are in a union and so get free legal cover or have it through your insurers? Otherwise worth speaking to citizens advice.

That is irrelevant, this kind of warrant is granted to access a premises, the tenant or resident is not important once the warrant has been granted. 

Rosetta92 said:

Perhaps trading standards would also be interested in the company that broke in. You may well find you are not the only victim.

They did not "break in" they accessed the property under the authorisation of a warrant, nothing whatsoever to do with Trading Standards. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24

doodling said:

Hi,

There are several parts to this:

Criminal Law:

It us against the law to break into people's homes without valid authority, at the very least, the offence of criminal damage may have been committed if the warrant was invalid (noting that minor errors on a warrant would not render it invalid).

The way to get the criminal law enforced is (generally) through the police. If they won't help then you are stuck, unless you have substantial money to mount a private prosecution.

Civil Law:

If the actions of people breaking into your house caused you a financial loss (e.g. you had to pay to replace a lock) then you can sue those people for your loss.  Unless you have suffered substantial medically certifiable harm then those losses will be limited to financial loss only, not compensation for your time or any mental anguish.

To get recompense this way you need to formally claim against your energy supplier and/or whoever it was who actually broke in through the courts.

Industry Schemes:

Energy suppliers like to keep on the good side of regulators and to be seen to be addressing complaints.  There is also an industry ombudsman who has some power to award compensation.

To claim this way, you need to start a formal complaint with your supplier and then escalate it to the ombudsman if you are not satisfied.  The amount will be a small sum in recognition of the error, perhaps in the low hundreds of pounds.


The third of the above approaches will be by far the easiest.

Thanks. I did contact the police and they came around but because the company say they have a warrant it's a legal entry in their book - at least until I get a copy of the warrant, which will say it was issued for an empty property, at which point I can contact the police again. 
I'm primarily annoyed with the company who forced entry knowing it was occupied. 

To my mind a company that executes warrants in this fashion shouldn't continue to execute warrants.  And I find it perplexing how difficult it is to get a copy of the warrant. The law seems pretty clear - they should have left a copy in the house and I am entitled to a copy of the warrant.

I get the energy company made a mistake in not removing the warrant when they signed me up.  Mistakes happen. But the forced entry was done knowing the warrant was for for an empty property and that the property was occupied, yet they carried on regardless.