Invalid Warrant Forced Entry

MattMattMattUK

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

molerat said:

The warrant clearly states it is to enter the premises, it does not mention the premises rented by, the respondent at the top is pretty much irrelevant.  The entry to the premises was perfectly legal and there is no point going down that route.  Your beef is with the supplier who gained a warrant of entry over a month after they were aware a new tenant had moved in.  Unfortunately with these incompetent energy suppliers the left hand does not talk to the right.  You need to raise a complaint with them and take it to the ombudsman if necessary, they will likely give you £200 to go away.  The newspapers may also like the story, no mentions of illegal though, just incompetent.

Thanks for that. The application was brought by the company that forced entry, presumably on behalf of the energy company. Does that change anything? The energy company are now saying it's all a bit strange and they have finding it difficult to get to the bottom of it.  The person I spoke to last almost suggested the company who forced entry went off on their own bat with this. They offered £100 that phone call.

It does - and treat the 'almost suggestion' from a random CS person as meaning nothing.

Supplier had an unrecovered debt or concern of tampering etc. and could not gain access, told a 3rd party to obtain warrant and proceed with necessary works/inspections.  Now it's off the suppliers list, they have nothing more to do with it.  Change of tenant doesn't necessarily overwrite their concerns or previous debt, so would not be an automatic trigger to change the instructions to the 3rd party.

3rd party goes through the legal process, gets warrant, acts on warrant.  They do not (and many would say should not) have contact with the tenant, occupant, landlord, homeowner etc.  They have no idea if someone has moved out or moved in, and it is essentially irrelevant to them anyway.  Only if their instructions changed would they fail to proceed.

Both parts perfectly legal, supported by the Electricity Act and the Licence Conditions.  Ombudsman might chuck you a few quid, but there are no massive errors here and you haven't suffered a significant loss that needs to be put right, so no precedent for an award over the usual £50 - £150 "shut up and go away" payment.

I'm with the same supplier, who originally told me the error was when they signed me up, someone didn't remove outstanding warrants. However, I now see the warrant was issued on August 9, 5 weeks after I moved in and signed up with the supplier on July 1. They had put a block on electricity supply which they lifted when I moved in - there was no electricity in the house before I signed up. I just find it extraordinary this may be all legal.

Warrants get put through processing, they take weeks at best, usually months to be granted, the process will have been started long before the warrant was issued, it just got lost in the process. You seem obsessed with the angle that various things must be illegal, they are not, barking up that tree is going to get you nowhere. 

MattMattMattUK

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

The right of entry details the address so that's legal imo.

It is a shame the process could have not been stopped and the meters inspected at your convenience and that is the part which I believe you can seek some compensation from the energy supplier.

Even though it is in someone else's name? Who hasn't lived here for almost a year? They've offered me £75 which I've not accepted.

As has been said multiple times, the name is irrelevant, the address is what matters. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

i'll be contacting the police to update them re the warrant.

Why? The warrant is perfectly valid, the police have already told you they are not interested as the warrant is valid. What purpose do you think it serves to take up more police time contacting them?

Police didn't say that. They said as the company say they have a valid warrant they'll accept that and that once I got the warrant I could call them back.

To tell them what? The company initially said that they entered the premises with a valid warrant, the company have a valid warrant, you are now in possession of a copy of the valid warrant, what exactly do you want from the police and how will taking up any more of their time bring any benefit to anyone?

BarelySentientAI

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

molerat said:

The warrant clearly states it is to enter the premises, it does not mention the premises rented by, the respondent at the top is pretty much irrelevant.  The entry to the premises was perfectly legal and there is no point going down that route.  Your beef is with the supplier who gained a warrant of entry over a month after they were aware a new tenant had moved in.  Unfortunately with these incompetent energy suppliers the left hand does not talk to the right.  You need to raise a complaint with them and take it to the ombudsman if necessary, they will likely give you £200 to go away.  The newspapers may also like the story, no mentions of illegal though, just incompetent.

Thanks for that. The application was brought by the company that forced entry, presumably on behalf of the energy company. Does that change anything? The energy company are now saying it's all a bit strange and they have finding it difficult to get to the bottom of it.  The person I spoke to last almost suggested the company who forced entry went off on their own bat with this. They offered £100 that phone call.

It does - and treat the 'almost suggestion' from a random CS person as meaning nothing.

Supplier had an unrecovered debt or concern of tampering etc. and could not gain access, told a 3rd party to obtain warrant and proceed with necessary works/inspections.  Now it's off the suppliers list, they have nothing more to do with it.  Change of tenant doesn't necessarily overwrite their concerns or previous debt, so would not be an automatic trigger to change the instructions to the 3rd party.

3rd party goes through the legal process, gets warrant, acts on warrant.  They do not (and many would say should not) have contact with the tenant, occupant, landlord, homeowner etc.  They have no idea if someone has moved out or moved in, and it is essentially irrelevant to them anyway.  Only if their instructions changed would they fail to proceed.

Both parts perfectly legal, supported by the Electricity Act and the Licence Conditions.  Ombudsman might chuck you a few quid, but there are no massive errors here and you haven't suffered a significant loss that needs to be put right, so no precedent for an award over the usual £50 - £150 "shut up and go away" payment.

I'm with the same supplier, who originally told me the error was when they signed me up, someone didn't remove outstanding warrants. However, I now see the warrant was issued on August 9, 5 weeks after I moved in and signed up with the supplier on July 1. They had put a block on electricity supply which they lifted when I moved in - there was no electricity in the house before I signed up. I just find it extraordinary this may be all legal.

Again, in your pursuit of illegality you are misunderstanding the situation.

The date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  Who happened to be the tenant of the property on the date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  What two different customer service agents have told you (and I notice that they have told you two completely different and contradictory things, but you are treating both as accurate) is irrelevant.

All that has happened is someone at the supplier hasn't manually revoked the instructions to the 3rd party on the change of customer.  Whether they should or shouldn't, could or couldn't, might need some debate - and that's what your complaint, if you make one, should be about.

Everything here is legal, regardless of how extraordinary you find it.

Qyburn

Wht did they actually do when they entered? Did they do damage in making entry, or make any change to the supplies? I think you would have mentioned any actual damage.

 I appreciate that just the fact of them making an unjustified entry is cause for grievance and they should offer something for that. If it were me I might think of fitting better locks, it must be uncomfortable knowing that people can get into your house.

TisInNeedOfHelp24

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

molerat said:

The warrant clearly states it is to enter the premises, it does not mention the premises rented by, the respondent at the top is pretty much irrelevant.  The entry to the premises was perfectly legal and there is no point going down that route.  Your beef is with the supplier who gained a warrant of entry over a month after they were aware a new tenant had moved in.  Unfortunately with these incompetent energy suppliers the left hand does not talk to the right.  You need to raise a complaint with them and take it to the ombudsman if necessary, they will likely give you £200 to go away.  The newspapers may also like the story, no mentions of illegal though, just incompetent.

Thanks for that. The application was brought by the company that forced entry, presumably on behalf of the energy company. Does that change anything? The energy company are now saying it's all a bit strange and they have finding it difficult to get to the bottom of it.  The person I spoke to last almost suggested the company who forced entry went off on their own bat with this. They offered £100 that phone call.

It does - and treat the 'almost suggestion' from a random CS person as meaning nothing.

Supplier had an unrecovered debt or concern of tampering etc. and could not gain access, told a 3rd party to obtain warrant and proceed with necessary works/inspections.  Now it's off the suppliers list, they have nothing more to do with it.  Change of tenant doesn't necessarily overwrite their concerns or previous debt, so would not be an automatic trigger to change the instructions to the 3rd party.

3rd party goes through the legal process, gets warrant, acts on warrant.  They do not (and many would say should not) have contact with the tenant, occupant, landlord, homeowner etc.  They have no idea if someone has moved out or moved in, and it is essentially irrelevant to them anyway.  Only if their instructions changed would they fail to proceed.

Both parts perfectly legal, supported by the Electricity Act and the Licence Conditions.  Ombudsman might chuck you a few quid, but there are no massive errors here and you haven't suffered a significant loss that needs to be put right, so no precedent for an award over the usual £50 - £150 "shut up and go away" payment.

I'm with the same supplier, who originally told me the error was when they signed me up, someone didn't remove outstanding warrants. However, I now see the warrant was issued on August 9, 5 weeks after I moved in and signed up with the supplier on July 1. They had put a block on electricity supply which they lifted when I moved in - there was no electricity in the house before I signed up. I just find it extraordinary this may be all legal.

Again, in your pursuit of illegality you are misunderstanding the situation.

The date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  Who happened to be the tenant of the property on the date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  What two different customer service agents have told you (and I notice that they have told you two completely different and contradictory things, but you are treating both as accurate) is irrelevant.

All that has happened is someone at the supplier hasn't manually revoked the instructions to the 3rd party on the change of customer.  Whether they should or shouldn't, could or couldn't, might need some debate - and that's what your complaint, if you make one, should be about.

Everything here is legal, regardless of how extraordinary you find it.

Fair enough, but you don't think this is an absolutely shambolic way of using court warrants to force entry into people's homes? They shouldn't be trusted with court warrants in my opinion. Police have said it's trespass but because a court issued a warrant, albeit on erroneous information, it's a civil matter. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

molerat said:

The warrant clearly states it is to enter the premises, it does not mention the premises rented by, the respondent at the top is pretty much irrelevant.  The entry to the premises was perfectly legal and there is no point going down that route.  Your beef is with the supplier who gained a warrant of entry over a month after they were aware a new tenant had moved in.  Unfortunately with these incompetent energy suppliers the left hand does not talk to the right.  You need to raise a complaint with them and take it to the ombudsman if necessary, they will likely give you £200 to go away.  The newspapers may also like the story, no mentions of illegal though, just incompetent.

Thanks for that. The application was brought by the company that forced entry, presumably on behalf of the energy company. Does that change anything? The energy company are now saying it's all a bit strange and they have finding it difficult to get to the bottom of it.  The person I spoke to last almost suggested the company who forced entry went off on their own bat with this. They offered £100 that phone call.

It does - and treat the 'almost suggestion' from a random CS person as meaning nothing.

Supplier had an unrecovered debt or concern of tampering etc. and could not gain access, told a 3rd party to obtain warrant and proceed with necessary works/inspections.  Now it's off the suppliers list, they have nothing more to do with it.  Change of tenant doesn't necessarily overwrite their concerns or previous debt, so would not be an automatic trigger to change the instructions to the 3rd party.

3rd party goes through the legal process, gets warrant, acts on warrant.  They do not (and many would say should not) have contact with the tenant, occupant, landlord, homeowner etc.  They have no idea if someone has moved out or moved in, and it is essentially irrelevant to them anyway.  Only if their instructions changed would they fail to proceed.

Both parts perfectly legal, supported by the Electricity Act and the Licence Conditions.  Ombudsman might chuck you a few quid, but there are no massive errors here and you haven't suffered a significant loss that needs to be put right, so no precedent for an award over the usual £50 - £150 "shut up and go away" payment.

I'm with the same supplier, who originally told me the error was when they signed me up, someone didn't remove outstanding warrants. However, I now see the warrant was issued on August 9, 5 weeks after I moved in and signed up with the supplier on July 1. They had put a block on electricity supply which they lifted when I moved in - there was no electricity in the house before I signed up. I just find it extraordinary this may be all legal.

Again, in your pursuit of illegality you are misunderstanding the situation.

The date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  Who happened to be the tenant of the property on the date the warrant was issued is irrelevant.  What two different customer service agents have told you (and I notice that they have told you two completely different and contradictory things, but you are treating both as accurate) is irrelevant.

All that has happened is someone at the supplier hasn't manually revoked the instructions to the 3rd party on the change of customer.  Whether they should or shouldn't, could or couldn't, might need some debate - and that's what your complaint, if you make one, should be about.

Everything here is legal, regardless of how extraordinary you find it.

Yes, they should of course have removed any outstanding warrants etc and they've repeatedly apologised. But they had a few opportunities to rectify it - they took money from the meter to pay the debts of the previous tenant, which I had to call and have rectified. The company that actually forced entry knew it was occupied and that the house was supposed to be empty. Shambolic way to use court warrants to force entry into people's homes. They shouldn't be trusted with warrants in my opinion, they clearly don't care about following due process.

MP1995

You have been asked so many times

Were you or someone else present when entry was gained?
If not did they break down a door/locksmith etc?
What was your financial loss?
How much do you want for your losses?

TisInNeedOfHelp24

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

molerat said:

The warrant clearly states it is to enter the premises, it does not mention the premises rented by, the respondent at the top is pretty much irrelevant.  The entry to the premises was perfectly legal and there is no point going down that route.  Your beef is with the supplier who gained a warrant of entry over a month after they were aware a new tenant had moved in.  Unfortunately with these incompetent energy suppliers the left hand does not talk to the right.  You need to raise a complaint with them and take it to the ombudsman if necessary, they will likely give you £200 to go away.  The newspapers may also like the story, no mentions of illegal though, just incompetent.

Thanks for that. The application was brought by the company that forced entry, presumably on behalf of the energy company. Does that change anything?

No.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The energy company are now saying it's all a bit strange and they have finding it difficult to get to the bottom of it. 

Someone in customer services is unlikely to have the full picture, certainly not relating to debt recovery and they will not be able to discuss the previous account holder's debt with you as that is against data protection rules. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The person I spoke to last almost suggested the company who forced entry went off on their own bat with this. 

The third party will have only acted upon what they were told, eg. suspected meter tampering, gain access and verify meter/disconnect supply if tampered. Customer services will not have proper visibility of what debt recovery or revenue security are doing.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
They offered £100 that phone call.

When they put it in writing, take the money.

It was nothing to do with debt, suspected meter tampering. They had already stopped supply of electricity into the house when I moved in. They had to remove a block they put on the meter. They subsequently took money from the meter to pay an outstanding debt from a previous tenant. They had loads of opportunities to do what they should have done when I moved in - remove any outstanding warrants etc on the house.They acknowledge this and have apologies repeatedly. It's still an utterly shambolic way of using court warrants to force entry into people's homes and in my opinion they shouldn't be trusted with court warrants as they clearly have little regard to due process. Police have said it's trespass but as they obtained a court warrant, albeit on erroneous information, it's a civil mater.

TisInNeedOfHelp24

MP1995 said:

You have been asked so many times

Were you or someone else present when entry was gained?
If not did they break down a door/locksmith etc?
What was your financial loss?
How much do you want for your losses?

I was out. The neighbour spoke to them and told them a new tenant had moved in when they asked inquisitively that the house was supposed to be empty. They forced the lock but no damage. I just think it's shameful way to be using court warrants to force entry into people's homes. They shouldn't be trusted with warrants in my opinion as they don't care about due process. They've apologies and acknowledge they should have removed any warrants etc on the house when I moved in. It's a farce in my opinion, a court warrant to force entry should be taken seriously.

MP1995

OK so no actually damages, so they £100 being offered is reasonable.

These things happen in life and instead of stwejng over them sometimes it is best to move on.

Whilst there is sympathy for this happening most of the replies repeat the same thing to you about the legality and it was legal, just a shame it could not be stopped and that has to do with the way the warrant terms are set. It cannot be stopped.

It was also a shame you were not home.

My advice, take some compensation and move on.