Boundary Issue

Shadowscribe

I hope I'm posting this in the right place and it makes sense! 

We bought our  semi-detached house about 7 years ago and the Official Copy of the  Register of Title did not have any inward "T's" on any of the boundaries. The advice we received from the solicitor we instructed was that "The title deeds make no reference to responsibilities for maintenance of boundary structures and it is, therefore, assumed in law that these are party structures maintainable by you and the relevant adjoining neighbour."

Earlier this year the neighbour of the adjoining house (who moved in about 5 years ago) approached us stating that they wanted to remove the fence panels between their back garden and our back garden, turning into a communal garden that we would share. 

We obviously said no to this as we value our privacy and want to do what we want to/in our garden (within reason and without interference from a third party). 

Neighbour has now provided us with a copy of their official copy of the register of title (though only the title plan page), which shows inward T's on all boundaries, indicating that they own/responsible for all the surrounding boundaries (though it seems the inward T's have been drawn on and there seems to be signatures in pen on the title plan). No other inward T's are present on any of the other properties on the street on this title plan which we find a bit odd. 

My question is that if the adjoining boundary between our house and the adjoining house is owned by the neighbour, would there not have been an inward T on our copy of the Official Copy of the Register of Title which would show that the boundary belonged to the adjoining neighbour? 

We've never had any contact from the Land Registry or the neighbour about applications for ownership of the boundary so we are very confused by the discrepancy between our copy of the register of title and the copy the adjoining neighbour has. 

lincroft1710

Unless there is clause in the deeds that says a boundary fence must be maintained, then if the fence was erected by a previous owner of the neighbouring house, the present owners are perfectly at liberty to remove it and not replace it. You of course are at liberty to erect a fence on your side of the boundary.

thegreenone

What a bizarre thing for your neighbours to ask.  Perhaps obtain a copy of their deeds to see if they match what they have shown you? For clarity.

If they do take out their fence, I'm sure you are perfectly within your rights to put a fence up, on your land, to make sure you have privacy.

Shadowscribe

Our deeds say "To be responsible for the maintenance repair and renewal of the existing boundaries (such boundaries having such either walls (retaining or otherwise) fences or hedges) marked on the plan with an inward "T"..."

However there are no inward T's on our title plan, yet on the neighbour's title plan there is an inward T showing that they own all of the boundaries. 

So I guess my question is, surely on our title plan there would have been an inward T showing that the boundary is owned by the adjoining property and/or if ownership of the boundary had changed we would have been notified? 

The previous owners of our house put up the fence, however, neighbour is adamant that they are the ones who own the boundary because of the inward T so can do what they want with the fence. 

To put a fence up on our land would be very expensive - it's a 60 ft long garden and would need concrete posts, gravel boards and the panels and a bit resentful to do this when there is already all of these in place but neighbour wants a communal garden. 

BarelySentientAI

Shadowscribe said:

My question is that if the adjoining boundary between our house and the adjoining house is owned by the neighbour, would there not have been an inward T on our copy of the Official Copy of the Register of Title which would show that the boundary belonged to the adjoining neighbour? 

So I guess my question is, surely on our title plan there would have been an inward T showing that the boundary is owned by the adjoining property and/or if ownership of the boundary had changed we would have been notified? 

No.  There is no need for the T on your plan.

Shadowscribe said:

To put a fence up on our land would be very expensive - it's a 60 ft long garden and would need concrete posts, gravel boards and the panels and a bit resentful to do this when there is already all of these in place but neighbour wants a communal garden. 

Removing the fence doesn't mean they are suddenly allowed to wander through your garden at will.  There is still a property boundary.

The simplest way to stop people crossing your property boundary, however, is for you to put up a physical barrier.

housebuyer143

If you can't afford the fence, hang up some rope to indicate the boundary and let them know that you do not give permission for them to enter your property.

This is very wierd! Maybe they think removing the fence will automatically make it shared but if you make it clear they will be trespassing even once the fence is gone they may consider removing it because what's the point 🤷‍♀️

Brie

You might plant a hedge or at least a series of plants to indicate where the boundary is.  But best to have something solid - a row of stones, railway sleepers, short posts with a wire - to show there is a boundary and saparation  between properties.

If they have rampaging children or dogs or ducks I'd be asking them to keep the fence in place.

RAS

OP start by downloading the deeds from the Land Registry, which costs £3.

There is a legal responsibility to maintain boundaries marked with T. Since there are no inwards facing Ts, you don't apparently have any legal duty.

That doesn't prevent you inserting a fence or wall 10cms inside your boundary. Secure fences make good neighbours.

Slinky

If the previous owners of your house put the fence up (how do you know this?) is it already on your side of the boundary? How obvious is the dividing line between the properties?

Shadowscribe

RAS said:

OP start by downloading the deeds from the Land Registry, which costs £3.

There is a legal responsibility to maintain boundaries marked with T. Since there are no inwards facing Ts, you don't apparently have any legal duty.

That doesn't prevent you inserting a fence or wall 10cms inside your boundary. Secure fences make good neighbours.

The deeds we've downloaded from the Land Registry don't show an inward T on ours or the neighbour's property but we've been told that the documents we need to request are the office copy of the official copy of the register of title for both properties - we already have this for ours and there is no inward T on our the one obtained when we purchased the house. .

Think the particular document we need is the one which is £7 and has to be requested via a postal form. 

Slinky said:

If the previous owners of your house put the fence up (how do you know this?) is it already on your side of the boundary? How obvious is the dividing line between the properties?

The previous owners told us they put up the fence (appreciate that this may not be sufficient proof); we did also replace several of the panels when they were damaged in a storm before the current neighbour moved in (still have the invoice / order receipt) and my limited understanding is that the way the panels face mean the fence is on our side of the boundary. 

Again my understanding (which is limited) is that an inward T isn't necessarily definitive and is a rebuttable presumption. BarelySentientAI said:

Shadowscribe said:

My question is that if the adjoining boundary between our house and the adjoining house is owned by the neighbour, would there not have been an inward T on our copy of the Official Copy of the Register of Title which would show that the boundary belonged to the adjoining neighbour? 

So I guess my question is, surely on our title plan there would have been an inward T showing that the boundary is owned by the adjoining property and/or if ownership of the boundary had changed we would have been notified? 

No.  There is no need for the T on your plan.

Shadowscribe said:

To put a fence up on our land would be very expensive - it's a 60 ft long garden and would need concrete posts, gravel boards and the panels and a bit resentful to do this when there is already all of these in place but neighbour wants a communal garden. 

Removing the fence doesn't mean they are suddenly allowed to wander through your garden at will.  There is still a property boundary.

The simplest way to stop people crossing your property boundary, however, is for you to put up a physical barrier.

Thanks for this, guess I'm confused as to why we were told that it was a shared boundary when in fact it seems that it is the neighbour's ownership - thought to give that advice, that would have to be no inward T on either plan? 

I think they think it will allow them to wonder into our garden at will and we don't want to get into a confrontation with them but know that we do need to stand up to them. Just worried about what they will do to us if we do install a physical barrier given they want our garden to be part of theis. 

BarelySentientAI

Shadowscribe said:

 BarelySentientAI said:

Shadowscribe said:

My question is that if the adjoining boundary between our house and the adjoining house is owned by the neighbour, would there not have been an inward T on our copy of the Official Copy of the Register of Title which would show that the boundary belonged to the adjoining neighbour? 

So I guess my question is, surely on our title plan there would have been an inward T showing that the boundary is owned by the adjoining property and/or if ownership of the boundary had changed we would have been notified? 

No.  There is no need for the T on your plan.

Shadowscribe said:

To put a fence up on our land would be very expensive - it's a 60 ft long garden and would need concrete posts, gravel boards and the panels and a bit resentful to do this when there is already all of these in place but neighbour wants a communal garden. 

Removing the fence doesn't mean they are suddenly allowed to wander through your garden at will.  There is still a property boundary.

The simplest way to stop people crossing your property boundary, however, is for you to put up a physical barrier.

Thanks for this, guess I'm confused as to why we were told that it was a shared boundary when in fact it seems that it is the neighbour's ownership - thought to give that advice, that would have to be no inward T on either plan? 

I think they think it will allow them to wander into our garden at will and we don't want to get into a confrontation with them but know that we do need to stand up to them. Just worried about what they will do to us if we do install a physical barrier given they want our garden to be part of theis. 

That's it.  Your plan tells you what you are responsible for.  It doesn't need to tell you what anyone else is responsible for - although sometimes they do.

The copy you've seen having Ts 'added' and signatures on the plan suggests that it has been modified later and has been submitted as an approved modification, like somehow they've gained the responsibility and had the plans changed to reflect that (but that's complete speculation on my part).