Tomato Energy (Electric Only Supplier) - Too Good To Be True ?

Chrysalis

FreeBear said:

Chrysalis said:

So assuming the Octopus Mini stops working, how would I get live usage from the smart meter with Tomato to my phone?  Really dont want to fire up the IHD again.

Hildebrand Glow, but that is just another IHD (all be it with the ability to post the data elsewhere). If you really wanted the data showing on your phone, Hildebrand do an app for that.

Just to confirm I am talking about the live watts usage so e.g. currently using 512W, that IHD does that with an app to access it?

masonic

mr_accountant said:

Doc_N said:

The title of this thread contains the magic consumer warning words ‘too good to be true’ - admittedly, with a question mark.

Having now checked out the Companies House record, I’ve ditched my potential switching plans. Too many of what I’d see as red flags.

The three 'directors' have involvement in 42 companies between them, they must be very busy, that will explain why their accounts are overdue!

I'll pass on this one and pay a little more with octopus

Most of the companies are part of the same group. Senapt is the main company. The directors are a bunch of tech bros who have acquired and rebranded (twice) an existing energy supplier to use as a flagship for their digital platform.

Bendo

Chrysalis said:

FreeBear said:

Chrysalis said:

So assuming the Octopus Mini stops working, how would I get live usage from the smart meter with Tomato to my phone?  Really dont want to fire up the IHD again.

Hildebrand Glow, but that is just another IHD (all be it with the ability to post the data elsewhere). If you really wanted the data showing on your phone, Hildebrand do an app for that.

Just to confirm I am talking about the live watts usage so e.g. currently using 512W, that IHD does that with an app to access it?

Yes. The glow can do that and has an api too, but good luck they have been out of stock forever.  One of the things that make leaving Octopus hard is the lack of other realtime options.

Newbie_John

@Bendo, the number of Smets1 customers is limited, the number of SmEts2 constantly growing - and just doing quick maths based on Agile prices - average price for the past year was about 16p/kWh which comes from wholesale price of 8p now that's sold by TE for 5p-25p + standing charge of 40p a day - honestly it's marginal loss. I've seen people with SMETS1 posting their bills, so they're working on this - and the significant discount will only be given if the bill is 6 months late - so for September usage that's not till 1st April - likely will get resolved.

Regarding difference between smets1 and SmEts2 there was a Facebook group post by the TE owner - stating that S2 follow a standard whereas S1 had many versions, anyone did what they wanted and how they wanted without sharing any documentation - the remaining big players on the market have either implemented them, inherited docs when companies started collapsing or been long enough to figure it out themselves by now. TE as a domestic supplier has been there under 5 months

All I can say is that Octopus just puts so much money into marketing themselves as innovative and green but cost wise they are as expensive as other companies, Tracker expensive, Agile recently very expensive, Cosy expensive..

This market really needs a serious competition and I'm really glad TE showed up. I don't think there is much risk - I save about 30% compared to Octopus so if they collapse one day - tough luck, will move again then.

masonic

Newbie_John said:

TE as a domestic supplier has been there under 5 months

That's not strictly true. They had a few forum members as customers when they were Logicor. The MyWatts platform was still in development at that time, and there was some heat on them from Ofgem.

TBH the Ofgem stuff seemed more significant to me than anything at Companies House, but what do I know.

Bendo

Newbie_John said:

Regarding difference between smets1 and SmEts2 there was a Facebook group post by the TE owner - stating that S2 follow a standard whereas S1 had many versions, anyone did what they wanted and how they wanted without sharing any documentation - the remaining big players on the market have either implemented them, inherited docs when companies started collapsing or been long enough to figure it out themselves by now. TE as a domestic supplier has been there under 5 months

Whilst that was somewhat true for SMETS1 meters pre DCC adoption,  it is absolute nonsense for adopted SMETS 1 meters. If that has come from the owner of Tomato Energy, then that's another red flag.

Doc_N

mr_accountant said:

Doc_N said:

The title of this thread contains the magic consumer warning words ‘too good to be true’ - admittedly, with a question mark.

Having now checked out the Companies House record, I’ve ditched my potential switching plans. Too many of what I’d see as red flags.

The three 'directors' have involvement in 42 companies between them, they must be very busy, that will explain why their accounts are overdue!

I'll pass on this one and pay a little more with octopus

Overdue accounts is indeed one of the things that concern me about Tomato, and I'd agree with the Guardian on that:

"Not filing an annual report is a criminal offence, although the maximum financial penalty for late filing is only £1,500 for a private company. It is generally seen as a red flag for other companies carrying out due diligence."

Too risky for me. I know that monies are protected, but that's not the only issue when a company goes under, as many of us know.

masonic

Bendo said:

Newbie_John said:

Regarding difference between smets1 and SmEts2 there was a Facebook group post by the TE owner - stating that S2 follow a standard whereas S1 had many versions, anyone did what they wanted and how they wanted without sharing any documentation - the remaining big players on the market have either implemented them, inherited docs when companies started collapsing or been long enough to figure it out themselves by now. TE as a domestic supplier has been there under 5 months

Whilst that was somewhat true for SMETS1 meters pre DCC adoption,  it is absolute nonsense for adopted SMETS 1 meters. If that has come from the owner of Tomato Energy, then that's another red flag.

Can't really comment on the Facebook exchange having not seen it, but it is clear that their platform is newly developed and immature, so that would be a red flag for customers who aren't willing to tolerate a slightly bumpy ride. It is not just the SMETS1 issue, they also until recently had an off-by-one error in their billing system, which meant the transitions between TOU rates were happening a half hour early. I would not have been prepared to join had it not been confirmed that they have fixed that (and relatively quickly).

New SMETS1 customers haven't been given the option to join with the billing issue having come to light, which was probably the right move by TE, while those who joined prior to this are currently not being charged for the energy they are using, with the prospect of a discount when these issues are sorted out. That is not a bad situation to be in IMHO. They have not been told, 'oh without access to your smart data we're going to have to bill this usage using a meter reading on SVT' as Octopus have taken to doing.

Doc_N said:

Overdue accounts is indeed one of the things that concern me about Tomato, and I'd agree with the Guardian on that:

"Not filing an annual report is a criminal offence, although the maximum financial penalty for late filing is only £1,500 for a private company. It is generally seen as a red flag for other companies carrying out due diligence."

Too risky for me. I know that monies are protected, but that's not the only issue when a company goes under, as many of us know.

We don't yet know whether the accounts are actually overdue. As a case in point, my employer filed their 2022 accounts on 19th December 2023 according to the Companies House stamp, but they didn't appear online until 3rd January 2024, making them appear late. Their 2023 accounts are currently showing as overdue as of today, but I rather suspect these too were filed before the deadline at the end of last year. I know enough about my employer not to see this as a red flag.

Regarding money being protected, as customers will be paying by variable direct debit, there should be no credit balances to protect. The other issue is of course potentially getting stuck on SVT for weeks while a transfer is made. With the advent of 5 day switching, I do wonder if this is now more easily avoidable if you are nimble enough.

The risks when a small supplier fails are always going to be greater than for a supplier that is too big to fail, so if that is an important factor for you, then that would rule out TE.

Chrysalis

mr_accountant said:

Doc_N said:

The title of this thread contains the magic consumer warning words ‘too good to be true’ - admittedly, with a question mark.

Having now checked out the Companies House record, I’ve ditched my potential switching plans. Too many of what I’d see as red flags.

The three 'directors' have involvement in 42 companies between them, they must be very busy, that will explain why their accounts are overdue!

I'll pass on this one and pay a little more with octopus

Adding as custom tariff Octopus Compare predicts a 38% saving for me (including SC).  Of course this is based on real world usage data.
Would be even higher against tracker or SVR.

Newbie_John

Ok but even if they've collapsed today what would happen in the worst case scenario?

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/what-happens-if-your-energy-supplier-goes-bust#:~:text=Wait for Ofgem to appoint a new supplier&text=Your new supplier will start,or supplier at any time.

You'll be moved to SOLR, who you can leave anytime - they may offer you the same rates, they may put you on the SVR tarrif. "Together" went bust on 18th Jan 2022 and new supplier British Gas was appointed on 24th Jan.
Possibly the few days between now and the previous bill may be charged at different rates.. 

Sure, the future looks uncertain - but you're not risking much really.