Tomato Energy (Electric Only Supplier) - Too Good To Be True ?

Newbie_John

It'd be funny, but so far I've learnt here that any predictions made in this topic tend to be wrong.

They also leave everything to very last minute and pay in the end like there is some kind of plan - get a sponsor, larger business client.. but need to delay the process as much as possible.

masonic

Newbie_John said:

It'd be funny, but so far I've learnt here that any predictions made in this topic tend to be wrong.

They also leave everything to very last minute and pay in the end like there is some kind of plan - get a sponsor, larger business client.. but need to delay the process as much as possible.

Predictions are difficult, especially about the future. I don't consider myself to be the next Mystic Meg to have got this one right though... https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81463397/#Comment_81463397

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest TE won't have cleared things up by the next deadline imposed by Ofgem of 31st August.

MWT

Newbie_John said:

They also leave everything to very last minute and pay in the end like there is some kind of plan - get a sponsor, larger business client.. but need to delay the process as much as possible.

That is a hope or a dream, not a plan...

You are right to the extent that they need an investor to allow them to survive, but the time to be achieving that was before they started to miss paying bills, but they also lacked proof that their business model was viable, and the longer they struggle to stay afloat the harder it is to convince an investor that it is actually a viable business.

Right now I'd hope they were trying very hard to sell the parent, Senapt, as a potential Kraken competitor, and let Tomato die on the vine so to speak.

Saving both may be too much to hope for, and even Senapt is going to need a lot of investment and time to reach the point where it could complete against Kraken, but there are organisations out there with the funding and perhaps the inclination not to just let Kraken have the global market to itself.

Not long to wait till we find out where this goes, personally I hope that Senapt at least, does survive, that though is still a hope, or a dream, not a plan....

 

masonic

I'd have thought up to date accounts would be essential if courting investors.

MWT

masonic said:

I'd have thought up to date accounts would be essential if courting investors.

True, but the accounts they would use would always be more up-to-date and detailed than the statutory accounts so that just becomes pat of their explanation of their regulatory deficiencies rather than a complete impediment.

... and being a few months late is not really that big a deal on its own, not a show-stopper anyway.

Newbie_John

Sure, but there's a lot of unknown here. Senapt seems to be 100+ people company, with a lot of senior managers, engineers, programmers - and they've been running since 2016. They must have some decent income coming from somewhere. 
It could be that Tomato is just their testing guinea pig, but it also could be something very different behind scenes. Only time will tell.
September will definitely the good month to revisit this thread. 

masonic

Newbie_John said:

Sure, but there's a lot of unknown here. Senapt seems to be 100+ people company, with a lot of senior managers, engineers, programmers - and they've been running since 2016. They must have some decent income coming from somewhere. 
It could be that Tomato is just their testing guinea pig, but it also could be something very different behind scenes. Only time will tell.
September will definitely the good month to revisit this thread. 

We know they're earning millions from Tomato, not from their own overdue accounts, but from Tomato's filed ones. That was before the influx of customers.

MWT

Newbie_John said:

Sure, but there's a lot of unknown here. Senapt seems to be 100+ people company, with a lot of senior managers, engineers, programmers - and they've been running since 2016. They must have some decent income coming from somewhere. 

Not really...

Here is the whole story from a news piece in 2021...

https://www.newpower.info/2021/04/interview-is-electricity-retail-complicated-farouk-alhassan-says-no-he-wants-to-make-it-easy-for-suppliers-and-customers/

Pretty much as this piece was being published Senapt acquired their only remaining customer, Logicor, and then later renamed it as 'Tomato'...

The quality of funding you can assess from the news link above...

masonic

MWT said:

Newbie_John said:

Sure, but there's a lot of unknown here. Senapt seems to be 100+ people company, with a lot of senior managers, engineers, programmers - and they've been running since 2016. They must have some decent income coming from somewhere. 

Not really...

Here is the whole story from a news piece in 2021...

https://www.newpower.info/2021/04/interview-is-electricity-retail-complicated-farouk-alhassan-says-no-he-wants-to-make-it-easy-for-suppliers-and-customers/

Pretty much as this piece was being published Senapt acquired their only remaining customer, Logicor, and then later renamed it as 'Tomato'...

The quality of funding you can assess from the news link above...

Thanks, some interesting insights there about the platform. Had not appreciated they'd built their own framework to generate the industry flows. Possibly explains their difficulty with D86. I also now understand the complex share ownership, having previously thought they were giving equity to employees. A monthly subscription for equity is an interesting way of financing the business.

MWT

masonic said:

MWT said:

Newbie_John said:

Sure, but there's a lot of unknown here. Senapt seems to be 100+ people company, with a lot of senior managers, engineers, programmers - and they've been running since 2016. They must have some decent income coming from somewhere. 

Not really...

Here is the whole story from a news piece in 2021...

https://www.newpower.info/2021/04/interview-is-electricity-retail-complicated-farouk-alhassan-says-no-he-wants-to-make-it-easy-for-suppliers-and-customers/

Pretty much as this piece was being published Senapt acquired their only remaining customer, Logicor, and then later renamed it as 'Tomato'...

The quality of funding you can assess from the news link above...

Thanks, some interesting insights there about the platform. Had not appreciated they'd built their own framework to generate the industry flows. Possibly explains their difficulty with D86. I also now understand the complex share ownership, having previously thought they were giving equity to employees. A monthly subscription for equity is an interesting way of financing the business.

Avoiding using a 3rd party Adapter is one of the reasons I've said I liked their approach, as I've felt this is a weakness for Octopus, but it comes at a stiff price in development terms and they have struggled to get that right it seems.