Dismissed from job 3 years ago, no references, not sure where to start to get a job

Marcon

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Marcon said:

Given the shortage of nurses in the UK, I think you might be fretting needlessly about the reference aspect of things. Unless you were dismissed for some serious reason (rather than the difference of opinion about what the new job entailed), might a constructive next step be some sort of return to nursing course? I think they are normally intended for people who've had a rather longer break than you have had, but it might help to get you back into a routine and give you a chance to shine again.

A three year break isn't that long, so if your previous NHS trust needs to supply a reference, I'm struggling to see why it would be such an issue. A ten year break perhaps...

I was dismissed as the manager did not like getting told that he had misled me about the job, telling them that if I had known this before hand I would not have taken the job, that since he has given me the same workload as the temp I will not have opportunity to train and may as well quit and work as a temp!

A few of my co-workers from the ex-employer (that dismissed me) knew I left under a cloud  and have started working at local hospitals and I'm not sure if I should apply to these hospitals for that reason - I applied for a job at a local hospital and the ward manager turned out to be a former co-worker so I'm sure she's probably told some of the other ward managers by now! Also the first question anyone interviewing will ask will be what happened at the ex-employer if I apply for a permanent job closer to home and I'm thinking that if I built my CV up with a years worth of locum work then the "blip" at the ex-employer sticks out less.

So I was considering temping for a little while at hospitals a bit further out and then get a job closer to home when I have re-built my CV with around 6 months - 12 months of work and hopefully references.

 Any ideas on this?

Told them what, exactly? You were sacked because the job description and the job weren't a match and you said so?
 
You need a way forward and that sounds as good as any, although I have to say I still think you are hugely over-estimating how a future employer would react to something which they will have come across before: an applicant who left a job because what they expected it to be wasn't how it turned out. You're a member of a club with a hell of a lot of members!

You're building the dismissal up in your own mind and using it, consciously or otherwise, as a barrier to stop you moving forward. Most people are nervous about returning to work after a break, but the longer you leave it, the harder it'll get.

You talk about 'leaving under a cloud' but unless there's more to it (a LOT more), the circumstances of your departure, especially after such a short time in the new job, just aren't that big a deal. One good way to turn it round is to ensure that you have a conversation at the relevant time (whether with an agency, and/or a potential new employer), saying carefully that the job wasn't what you had anticipated, and you'd like to ensure you have a clear understanding of what any new job would entail, to ensure the same mistake isn't repeated.

Purplelady65

Re your concern about references most NHS Trusts now only request and provide a factual reference only. This information will include your job title, band, salary and the dates you were employed. A reference request would also ask if you were dismissed or went through any formal process. You do have a right to request that only certain information is released within a reference (within reason) and you would need to make a request to the Trust’s information governance team about this.

Re jobs as you’ll know there are thousands of nursing posts vacant across the NHS so I don’t see a 3 year break as being of any detriment to being offered a job. However I am puzzled as to the reasons given for your dismissal. I work in the NHS and for someone to be dismissed there would have been a full process gone through before that stage is reached.  Usually a decision to dismiss rather than issue a warning means that something serious must have happened. Or was your last employer not the NHS in which case their processes around employee relations cases may not be as thorough as they are in the NHS  Or do you mean you failed your probationary period where your contract is terminated and a hearing is not required? Again in the NHS though having an argument with your manager would not be sufficient grounds to fail your probationary period. So in summary I think you could be offered a job as a nurse, your previous employer could provide a factual reference but this will include information that you were dismissed. What a prospective employer would want to know about are the reasons for dismissal. 

NeedSomeHRadvice

Marcon said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Marcon said:

Given the shortage of nurses in the UK, I think you might be fretting needlessly about the reference aspect of things. Unless you were dismissed for some serious reason (rather than the difference of opinion about what the new job entailed), might a constructive next step be some sort of return to nursing course? I think they are normally intended for people who've had a rather longer break than you have had, but it might help to get you back into a routine and give you a chance to shine again.

A three year break isn't that long, so if your previous NHS trust needs to supply a reference, I'm struggling to see why it would be such an issue. A ten year break perhaps...

I was dismissed as the manager did not like getting told that he had misled me about the job, telling them that if I had known this before hand I would not have taken the job, that since he has given me the same workload as the temp I will not have opportunity to train and may as well quit and work as a temp!

A few of my co-workers from the ex-employer (that dismissed me) knew I left under a cloud  and have started working at local hospitals and I'm not sure if I should apply to these hospitals for that reason - I applied for a job at a local hospital and the ward manager turned out to be a former co-worker so I'm sure she's probably told some of the other ward managers by now! Also the first question anyone interviewing will ask will be what happened at the ex-employer if I apply for a permanent job closer to home and I'm thinking that if I built my CV up with a years worth of locum work then the "blip" at the ex-employer sticks out less.

So I was considering temping for a little while at hospitals a bit further out and then get a job closer to home when I have re-built my CV with around 6 months - 12 months of work and hopefully references.

 Any ideas on this?

Told them what, exactly? You were sacked because the job description and the job weren't a match and you said so?
 
You need a way forward and that sounds as good as any, although I have to say I still think you are hugely over-estimating how a future employer would react to something which they will have come across before: an applicant who left a job because what they expected it to be wasn't how it turned out. You're a member of a club with a hell of a lot of members!

You're building the dismissal up in your own mind and using it, consciously or otherwise, as a barrier to stop you moving forward. Most people are nervous about returning to work after a break, but the longer you leave it, the harder it'll get.

You talk about 'leaving under a cloud' but unless there's more to it (a LOT more), the circumstances of your departure, especially after such a short time in the new job, just aren't that big a deal. One good way to turn it round is to ensure that you have a conversation at the relevant time (whether with an agency, and/or a potential new employer), saying carefully that the job wasn't what you had anticipated, and you'd like to ensure you have a clear understanding of what any new job would entail, to ensure the same mistake isn't repeated.

There is a bit more...

 I sued my NHS hospital for discrimination after 10 years working there and settled out of court. I recon that the director of nursing has probably told all the neighbouring NHS trust directors about it and I'm probably blackballed in the county.  Out of desperation and frustration jumped into a job at the new private (non-NHS) employer and it turned out to be a scam and then I also sued this employer and settled out of court. So I got 2 settlement agreement and 2 agreed basic references! To make things a little worse, some of the people working at the private employer that dismissed me are friends with people that work at the NHS hospital I worked at and sued. So the people/managers at the NHS hospital will know SOME of what happened at this private employer (maybe not the me suing them part). I did tell the fellow employees at the private employer that I was leaving because of the scam/tricked they played on me.

This is why I was think about applying a bit further away and also to build up my job history so the blip with the  recent private (non-NHS) employer doesn't stick out like a sore thumb!

In hindsight, I shouldn't have let myself get bullied/discriminated out my NHS job, but my manager had spent the last 7 years waring me down and when I ended up scammed by the new private (non-NHS) employer, I should have just kept my head down and looked for another job, but instead I decided that I wasn't going to put up with anymore crap after I had put up with 7 years of it from my previous NHS manager. 

NeedSomeHRadvice

Purplelady65 said:

Re your concern about references most NHS Trusts now only request and provide a factual reference only. This information will include your job title, band, salary and the dates you were employed. A reference request would also ask if you were dismissed or went through any formal process. You do have a right to request that only certain information is released within a reference (within reason) and you would need to make a request to the Trust’s information governance team about this.

Re jobs as you’ll know there are thousands of nursing posts vacant across the NHS so I don’t see a 3 year break as being of any detriment to being offered a job. However I am puzzled as to the reasons given for your dismissal. I work in the NHS and for someone to be dismissed there would have been a full process gone through before that stage is reached.  Usually a decision to dismiss rather than issue a warning means that something serious must have happened. Or was your last employer not the NHS in which case their processes around employee relations cases may not be as thorough as they are in the NHS  Or do you mean you failed your probationary period where your contract is terminated and a hearing is not required? Again in the NHS though having an argument with your manager would not be sufficient grounds to fail your probationary period. So in summary I think you could be offered a job as a nurse, your previous employer could provide a factual reference but this will include information that you were dismissed. What a prospective employer would want to know about are the reasons for dismissal. 

First employer was NHS and I sued them for discrim after 10 years - manager discriminated against me otherwise I enjoyed my job and would have never left..
Second employer was a private business and scammed me and I sued them too.

I have agreed a basic reference as part of "parting ways" with the employers and they won't mention that I was dismissed on the reference. BUT, I suppose there is always the word of mouth as there's only a few NHS Trusts in my small county and I'm sure that the director of nursing from my NHS Trust meets every few months with the other ones from the county. Also the 2 deputy directors of nursing at my NHS Trust whilst I was suing the NHS Trust became directors of nursing at the the other NHS Trusts in the county. SO they probably remember or know! 

HampshireH

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

theoretica

Have you considered temp agencies?  They are low risk for the employer as I understand they can simply stop offering you work if they feel it isn't working out, so may be open to giving you a trial.  If you keep your head down, and expect it to be somewhat exploitative work, you can refresh your experience and references and get a feel for the current work climate and maybe where you want to go next.

NeedSomeHRadvice

HampshireH said:

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

Hi,

I'm not sure how much difference it makes to the original story TBH. The basic story is I am stuck with 2 basic references after I got dismissed 3 years ago from a previous job and have not had a job since. 

The details of me suing, settling etc aren't all that important as the basic issue is how to resolve the issue of the refs. The other issue may be that I am blackballed from working in this county, but thankfully the county is quite small and an hour of travelling puts me in a different county and if I needed to work even further away I am able to do that.

NeedSomeHRadvice

theoretica said:

Have you considered temp agencies?  They are low risk for the employer as I understand they can simply stop offering you work if they feel it isn't working out, so may be open to giving you a trial.  If you keep your head down, and expect it to be somewhat exploitative work, you can refresh your experience and references and get a feel for the current work climate and maybe where you want to go next.

I'm not scared of hard/exploitative work as I put up with 7 years of exploitation and discrimination at the hands of the NHS manager previously. I was doing 3 times the work of my colleagues, when on occasion my colleagues had to cover the same work, they would literally cry, and I mean physically cry.

I have applied to a couple of temp agencies and waiting to see what happens. 2 of the jobs are in hospitals in the county so I guess I will soon find out if I am blackballed as I have 10-15 years of experience so they should have no issues hiring me from a competency (can he/she do the job) issue. The only issues now is:

• are the temp agencies/clients OK with basic references,

•  they may ask me for a character reference to cover the 3 years gap in employment -> I can probably get one.

• will the the new client (NHS hospital) phone up my previous NHS/non-NHS employers and get the inside track on the down low, even though the previous NHS/private employers both are only legally meant to give the agreed reference and are not meant to say ANYTHING on the phone under the settlement agreement. 

I should find out in a couple of days....

Savvy_Sue

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

HampshireH said:

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

Hi,

I'm not sure how much difference it makes to the original story TBH. The basic story is I am stuck with 2 basic references after I got dismissed 3 years ago from a previous job and have not had a job since. 

The details of me suing, settling etc aren't all that important as the basic issue is how to resolve the issue of the refs. The other issue may be that I am blackballed from working in this county, but thankfully the county is quite small and an hour of travelling puts me in a different county and if I needed to work even further away I am able to do that.

I'm just hoping you don't have a particularly distinctive name. I'd expect HR professionals across the UK to keep a passing interest in the results of employment tribunals, especially those lost by the NHS (and yes, I know there's a fair few). You won't be blackballed in any way that you'll ever discover, it's just that your name will ring bells to someone, somewhere, and you could look like Trouble. 

I'm hoping going through agencies will give you a way back into employment. 

justwhat

I thought people were being over critical at then start of the thread. 
Then you dropped the bomb shell about suing your last two employers.

If you tell the truth about your employment history  and reasons for leaving , i would think it will go against you.

Highly unlikely people / ex-coworkers will know you consecutively sued your last two employers. One is unfortunate two "could" be seen as a habit forming. 

If it was me i would say i took an urgent break to care for an elderly relative and left previous NHS job due to it being time to move on an better prospects etc.

As for reference's. wing it , cross the bridge when you get there.

Good luck