Dismissed from job 3 years ago, no references, not sure where to start to get a job

Andy_L

IME the NHS no longer need a personal type reference because they themselves dont provide them. Combine that with a "I took a 3ish year career break to care for a poorly parent" and I'm not seeing a problem beyond have you done enough CPD to maintain your professional registration 

MattMattMattUK

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

elsien said:

Brie said:

I have a friend who took a few years out to be the carer for his parents.  That's an acceptable reason for not being in your previous employment.  

Frankly at this point I would suggest taking something a step or two down from where you want to be to get yourself back into a job.  Employers are going to be more accepting that you show you need to get back into practice.  Maybe an agency that puts you to cover for NHS work would be a good starter.  And go and talk to the agency - they'll know how to handle the gap.

It is acceptable if it’s accurate.
Taking a year to care for someone with a broken leg and then suddenly finding your another couple of years down the line really isn’t convincing.
As an employer, I’d be thinking broken legs don’t take that long to heal and tend not to need full-time carers anyway. So what has the OP been doing to fill in that time, and what have they been living on?
Because as above it’s not the references I’d be concerned about it, it would be the reason for the gap and why someone who apparently had a good work ethic previously seems to have lost it.

The OP may have a perfectly valid reason that they don’t want to disclose on here and that’s fair enough but they are going to have to explain it to an employer if they want to stand any chance of getting an interview.

I got dismissed, didn't feel up to taking up a new job, one of my parents broke their leg soon after so looked after them for a year or so, and now it is around 2 years 8 months since I was dismissed. 

As an employer that just would not cut it, it might sound harsh but that would be a CV that never gets an interview or an interview that does not get a second interview or a job. I do not know any other employers who would feel that was a good sign in relation to future employment. Lots of people lose their job an under far worse circumstances and do not take three years off. Lots of people break their leg and are back to work a few days later, let alone taking a year off for someone else's broken leg. Then taking another two years off after that, as an employer that is just about a big, flashing red warning sign as there is when it comes to likely attitude to work. 

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

To fill the time I've been watching TV, going to the gym, a long holiday or two, sleeping for 12 hours a day and generally catching up on my box sets.  I had quite a bit of spare cash and still have more than £30,000 in savings even after almost 3 years of not working and I do not have much outgoings so even this would last me another 3 years if I needed it to. Also it was quite nice to have a break after working continuously for 15 years of long hours/nights etc.

I could live off my savings for the next 30-36 months if I had to, that does not mean a potential employer would view that as sensible. I know plenty of people who have a break between jobs a few weeks, sometimes even a few months in cases of redundancy and new starts having a gap, but three years is not having a break, it is giving up work.

NeedSomeHRadvice said:
Whilst I had a job, I was motivated and had a routine due to the job (you have to turn up). Once I got dismissed I got quite lazy, and did not have a financial incentive to push me to find another job as stated above.

This is where we get to the more honest part, but an employers fear will be that the work ethic is gone permanently and the laziness is here to stay. You are going to have to do some serious work to convince a potential employer that you are worth taking that risk for. As you say you do not need to work right now I would seriously consider doing some additional training as part of or before trying to get back into work, if you can complete a course it shows a level of application that has not been present for the last three years. Your one saving grace might be that the NHS is still fairly desperate for nurses, so they may take a punt on you bases on desperation and that could give you a chance to prove yourself, or you might have to go through an agency and work on that basis until you get a few months back under your belt.

NeedSomeHRadvice

Andy_L said:

IME the NHS no longer need a personal type reference because they themselves dont provide them. Combine that with a "I took a 3ish year career break to care for a poorly parent" and I'm not seeing a problem beyond have you done enough CPD to maintain your professional registration 

I wondering if there is any NHS staff on here who can verify that. I do remember that when I last worked in the NHS back in 2021 they did give and request detailed personal references.

Marcon

Given the shortage of nurses in the UK, I think you might be fretting needlessly about the reference aspect of things. Unless you were dismissed for some serious reason (rather than the difference of opinion about what the new job entailed), might a constructive next step be some sort of return to nursing course? I think they are normally intended for people who've had a rather longer break than you have had, but it might help to get you back into a routine and give you a chance to shine again.

A three year break isn't that long, so if your previous NHS trust needs to supply a reference, I'm struggling to see why it would be such an issue. A ten year break perhaps...

itsthelittlethings

Most importantly you need to be upfront with your new potential employer. You were dismissed and obviously that's a red flag for them but if it was just for a difference of opinion and you didn't pass probation or something, explain that. If difference of opinion is code for lost my temper with my manager and got dismissed you have to explain that and show how you have learned from it and it wouldn't happen again. The most important thing is to be honest and open.

Andy_L

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Andy_L said:

IME the NHS no longer need a personal type reference because they themselves dont provide them. Combine that with a "I took a 3ish year career break to care for a poorly parent" and I'm not seeing a problem beyond have you done enough CPD to maintain your professional registration 

I wondering if there is any NHS staff on here who can verify that. I do remember that when I last worked in the NHS back in 2021 they did give and request detailed personal references.

It may well be an individual trust policy thing and some do and some don't but a quick Google shows lots of policies for giving factual references only eg

"It is Trust policy to only provide

factual references as part of the selection process for all applicants seeking employment

with the Trust.

A reference should aim to provide details of:

• Where the individual has been employed/volunteered, or has studied

• The dates of employment/volunteering, or duration of study

• The position held or, course undertaken

• Any recent or ongoing disciplinary action or referrals

• The reasons for leaving employment, training or study, (where this is known)"
(Shropshire and Telford)

"It is Trust policy to provide only factual information and not any personal

views or opinions relating to employees performance or conduct"
(East London"

Undervalued

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Marcon said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

I had been working for around 15 years in the NHS in a professional career (nurse/physiotherapist etc) type job, with a good salary.

I switched jobs to a new employer and found that I been duped by the new manager/employer promising me things that the job was not going to deliver (training opportunities that were non existent and just wanted me to work to cover temp duties.) I had a discussion about the job role with the manager and and expressed that it didn't look like I would be doing the job as described and that I was disappointed that I was basically going to be doing the work of a temp agency worker at a lower pay. The manager did not like me saying this and surprised me with a dismissal 2 months into the job.

It has now been almost 3 years since I last worked. The only references that I may be able to get from the NHS job and this previous job is probably a basic reference stating only start and end dates, position and that's about it. There is a good chance that they will not even give this since it has been that long since I left. I didn't keep in contact with any colleagues as I was only at my last job for 3 months and didn't make close relationship with anyone.


In my professional type job, employers will ask
(1) about the reasons for the 3 years gap in employment and
(2) about professional references. 

I could say I took a career break in relation to the gap in employment but have now idea what to do about professional references as they normally want a more in-depth character type reference and I doubt that they previous employers will even give a basic reference due to the time that has elapsed although at the time they said they would hold a basic reference on file.

Any advice on where to start would be welcome.

What exactly do you mean by a 'professional type' job - why are you so coy about disclosing what your role was? I doubt future employers are reading this and will immediately identify you if you send in a cv!

In a post in September 2022 you talking about being on a 9 month career break, so what's happened to turn it into 3 years? How have you kept up top date with clinical knowledge, or how will you update? That's more likely to interest a future employer than a squabble with a previous employer where things didn't work out - you've got a solid 15 years of NHS employment, so although you'd be wise to disclose the brief period of employment, you only need to say the job wasn't what you anticipated and it only lasted a couple of months.

OK, I'm a nurse. 

I got dismissed, didn't feel up to taking up a new job, one of my parents broke their leg soon after so looked after them for a year or so, and now it is around 2 years 8 months since I was dismissed.

I've kept clinical knowledge up to date by doing some reading about new developments but it has been difficult since I am not in a clinical environment so am "rusty", although it will come back to me pretty quickly.

Yes, I could say the job wasn't a good fit, the bigger issue is the references. Not even sure where to start with this one :-/

In most occupations you cannot force a former employer to provide a reference. However in certain regulated occupations they are legally obliged to provide one. I don't know if this applies to nursing but no doubt the RCN could advise?

NeedSomeHRadvice

Marcon said:

Given the shortage of nurses in the UK, I think you might be fretting needlessly about the reference aspect of things. Unless you were dismissed for some serious reason (rather than the difference of opinion about what the new job entailed), might a constructive next step be some sort of return to nursing course? I think they are normally intended for people who've had a rather longer break than you have had, but it might help to get you back into a routine and give you a chance to shine again.

A three year break isn't that long, so if your previous NHS trust needs to supply a reference, I'm struggling to see why it would be such an issue. A ten year break perhaps...

I was dismissed as the manager did not like getting told that he had misled me about the job, telling them that if I had known this before hand I would not have taken the job, that since he has given me the same workload as the temp I will not have opportunity to train and may as well quit and work as a temp!

A few of my co-workers from the ex-employer (that dismissed me) knew I left under a cloud  and have started working at local hospitals and I'm not sure if I should apply to these hospitals for that reason - I applied for a job at a local hospital and the ward manager turned out to be a former co-worker so I'm sure she's probably told some of the other ward managers by now! Also the first question anyone interviewing will ask will be what happened at the ex-employer if I apply for a permanent job closer to home and I'm thinking that if I built my CV up with a years worth of locum work then the "blip" at the ex-employer sticks out less.

So I was considering temping for a little while at hospitals a bit further out and then get a job closer to home when I have re-built my CV with around 6 months - 12 months of work and hopefully references.

 Any ideas on this?

NeedSomeHRadvice

itsthelittlethings said:

Most importantly you need to be upfront with your new potential employer. You were dismissed and obviously that's a red flag for them but if it was just for a difference of opinion and you didn't pass probation or something, explain that. If difference of opinion is code for lost my temper with my manager and got dismissed you have to explain that and show how you have learned from it and it wouldn't happen again. The most important thing is to be honest and open.

I'm going to to tell them that it didn't work out or the job was not what I was expecting or it wasn't the fit for me.

Not sure my next manager would like it if I said " I got dismissed for telling previous manager that he misled me into a job, and that I would be better off if I quit and come back and temp here for more money since I am doing the same work as a temp which won't leave me any time to train"

NeedSomeHRadvice

Andy_L said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Andy_L said:

IME the NHS no longer need a personal type reference because they themselves dont provide them. Combine that with a "I took a 3ish year career break to care for a poorly parent" and I'm not seeing a problem beyond have you done enough CPD to maintain your professional registration 

I wondering if there is any NHS staff on here who can verify that. I do remember that when I last worked in the NHS back in 2021 they did give and request detailed personal references.

It may well be an individual trust policy thing and some do and some don't but a quick Google shows lots of policies for giving factual references only eg

"It is Trust policy to only provide

factual references as part of the selection process for all applicants seeking employment

with the Trust.

A reference should aim to provide details of:

• Where the individual has been employed/volunteered, or has studied

• The dates of employment/volunteering, or duration of study

• The position held or, course undertaken

• Any recent or ongoing disciplinary action or referrals

• The reasons for leaving employment, training or study, (where this is known)"
(Shropshire and Telford)

"It is Trust policy to provide only factual information and not any personal

views or opinions relating to employees performance or conduct"
(East London"

This is reassuring. But I know for a fact that when I applied for the job at the ex-employer (that dismissed me), that they asked for a personal detailed reference and that my NHS hospital also asked for such references  when employing staff, so I'm now wondering if my NHS hospital is an aberration or whether the one you've quoted is.

I've contacted a temp agency and explained that the 2 previous employers will only provide brief references  and they said they'll see if the hospitals accept this, otherwise they'll ask for detailed references (so I'll be stuck!)