Dismissed from job 3 years ago, no references, not sure where to start to get a job

prowla

There's nothing wrong with finding out that a new job isn't right for you within the probation period; the probation is a two-way thing. It happened to me: the company said they were great to work for, but I found them to be very cliquey and hierarchical and basically not for me; they "let me go" the day before I was going to quit (I had the letter in my bag) - it was probably the worst job I ever had.

theoretica

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

theoretica said:

Have you considered temp agencies?  They are low risk for the employer as I understand they can simply stop offering you work if they feel it isn't working out, so may be open to giving you a trial.  If you keep your head down, and expect it to be somewhat exploitative work, you can refresh your experience and references and get a feel for the current work climate and maybe where you want to go next.

I'm not scared of hard/exploitative work as I put up with 7 years of exploitation and discrimination at the hands of the NHS manager previously. I was doing 3 times the work of my colleagues, when on occasion my colleagues had to cover the same work, they would literally cry, and I mean physically cry.

I have applied to a couple of temp agencies and waiting to see what happens. 2 of the jobs are in hospitals in the county so I guess I will soon find out if I am blackballed as I have 10-15 years of experience so they should have no issues hiring me from a competency (can he/she do the job) issue. The only issues now is:

• are the temp agencies/clients OK with basic references,

•  they may ask me for a character reference to cover the 3 years gap in employment -> I can probably get one.

• will the the new client (NHS hospital) phone up my previous NHS/non-NHS employers and get the inside track on the down low, even though the previous NHS/private employers both are only legally meant to give the agreed reference and are not meant to say ANYTHING on the phone under the settlement agreement. 

I should find out in a couple of days....

Hope it works out for you.

NeedSomeHRadvice

Savvy_Sue said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

HampshireH said:

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

Hi,

I'm not sure how much difference it makes to the original story TBH. The basic story is I am stuck with 2 basic references after I got dismissed 3 years ago from a previous job and have not had a job since. 

The details of me suing, settling etc aren't all that important as the basic issue is how to resolve the issue of the refs. The other issue may be that I am blackballed from working in this county, but thankfully the county is quite small and an hour of travelling puts me in a different county and if I needed to work even further away I am able to do that.

I'm just hoping you don't have a particularly distinctive name. I'd expect HR professionals across the UK to keep a passing interest in the results of employment tribunals, especially those lost by the NHS (and yes, I know there's a fair few). You won't be blackballed in any way that you'll ever discover, it's just that your name will ring bells to someone, somewhere, and you could look like Trouble. 

I'm hoping going through agencies will give you a way back into employment. 

It was settled out of court, both of them, I just checked the tribunal decisions and it's not on there and I expect if it was going to be on there then after 2 years it would have made it on there by now.

Re: blackballed. This still actually occurs and is widespread. Will see what happens.

Re: Agencies. They are looking for jobs for me, but main issue will anyone want to take on someone who has not practicsed for 2 years and will need some training if they can get someone who doesn't need training. It's not like the money is coming out of someone's personal pocket so the ward manager will probably prefer paying for a more expensive nurse that they don't have to train!

NeedSomeHRadvice

justwhat said:

I thought people were being over critical at then start of the thread. 
Then you dropped the bomb shell about suing your last two employers.

If you tell the truth about your employment history  and reasons for leaving , i would think it will go against you.

Highly unlikely people / ex-coworkers will know you consecutively sued your last two employers. One is unfortunate two "could" be seen as a habit forming. 

If it was me i would say i took an urgent break to care for an elderly relative and left previous NHS job due to it being time to move on an better prospects etc.

As for reference's. wing it , cross the bridge when you get there.

Good luck  

Yeah, I think if I told an employer that I sued 2 previous employers back to back it will probably go against me!

Coworkers probably don't know as it didn't go that far before they settled. But still it was a bit bad the way I left, at the second employer, I didn't even get to say goodbye to my colleagues as I was escorted off the site with an instant dismissal. I managed to phone my colleagues and explain what happened and that the manager sacked me after I pointed out that they scammed me and recruited me under false pretenses, but it still is leaving under a cloud.

Re: If it was me i would say i took an urgent break to care for an elderly relative and left previous NHS job due to it being time to move on an better prospects etc.

In a professional job (nurse/doctor etc) you're not allowed to deliberately lie (as you can get reported to your regulator and struck off) and you can't omit a place of work/post to mislead the new employer. Best I could say is maybe (1) the contract ended - which it did as the employer cancelled the contract or (2) it didn't work out/job was not a food fit/job did not align with description. I did leave the NHS job in part because this new job had a training element that I was interested in, but the main reason was the discriminations and being given the work of 3 people - but obviously I can tell the new employer about the discrimination!

As for reference's. wing it , cross the bridge when you get there.

References and the gap in employment is the big issue I fear especially in the NHS due to bods wanting to cross all the I's and cross all the T's. Managers/HR are very risk averse and would rather take on a less qualified/experienced/poorer candidate than someone with a gap in employment/questionable refs unfortunately. They may be slightly more relaxed through the agency regarding refs but the 2 years employment gap and the resultant training I may need will be off-putting for them as an agency worker is normally expected to hit the ground running.

I am close to 50 years old too so this is something else that is an issue.

NeedSomeHRadvice

prowla said:

There's nothing wrong with finding out that a new job isn't right for you within the probation period; the probation is a two-way thing. It happened to me: the company said they were great to work for, but I found them to be very cliquey and hierarchical and basically not for me; they "let me go" the day before I was going to quit (I had the letter in my bag) - it was probably the worst job I ever had.

What is your job? How did you go about finding the next job?  Did you find any obstacles? How did you overcome them?

It's not too bad in the private sector as they are less bothered about refs and will give someone a try if they look good on paper and can talk the talk at interview.

NHS are very different in this regard!

LinLui

Coworkers probably don't know as it didn't go that far before they settled. 
I wouldn't rely on that assumption. In my experience they can find out and circulate information faster than email. Whilst I agree with you that blacklisting is far more prevalent than people think (especially within an employer, rather than across employers - the latter is riskier because it may be reported, and it's illegal) it's my experience that the way managers find out about past history is the gossip mill of other employees. It only takes one incautious comment made by someone about what you did that was overheard, and everyone will have known. And that's assuming managers didn't openly share the information.

One thing I will say. However you decide to cover up your history, try to ensure that the two versions truthfully sync. You may not disclose fully,  but be very careful that you don't mislead or lie.  As what I think is a decent manager, I've employed new staff with far "worse" records than yours. But on every occasion the employee has told the truth from the start. But I'd have a very different attitude if I were lied to - trust cannot be built from a foundation of lies. If I found someone had lied, I'd be inclined to seriously consider letting them go before they got employment rights. Litigatious employees are no employers dream candidates, and if you add "liar" to that equation, you have a perfect storm heading for a gross misconduct dismissal. 

Undervalued

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Savvy_Sue said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

HampshireH said:

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

Hi,

I'm not sure how much difference it makes to the original story TBH. The basic story is I am stuck with 2 basic references after I got dismissed 3 years ago from a previous job and have not had a job since. 

The details of me suing, settling etc aren't all that important as the basic issue is how to resolve the issue of the refs. The other issue may be that I am blackballed from working in this county, but thankfully the county is quite small and an hour of travelling puts me in a different county and if I needed to work even further away I am able to do that.

I'm just hoping you don't have a particularly distinctive name. I'd expect HR professionals across the UK to keep a passing interest in the results of employment tribunals, especially those lost by the NHS (and yes, I know there's a fair few). You won't be blackballed in any way that you'll ever discover, it's just that your name will ring bells to someone, somewhere, and you could look like Trouble. 

I'm hoping going through agencies will give you a way back into employment. 

It was settled out of court, both of them, I just checked the tribunal decisions and it's not on there and I expect if it was going to be on there then after 2 years it would have made it on there by now.

Re: blackballed. This still actually occurs and is widespread. Will see what happens.

Re: Agencies. They are looking for jobs for me, but main issue will anyone want to take on someone who has not practicsed for 2 years and will need some training if they can get someone who doesn't need training. It's not like the money is coming out of someone's personal pocket so the ward manager will probably prefer paying for a more expensive nurse that they don't have to train!

And in most cases it is perfectly lawful.

If a potential employer finds out that a candidate took a previous employer to a tribunal (or reached a settlement) that would be a perfectly lawful reason to reject them if they so choose, irrespective of the merits of the dispute.

NeedSomeHRadvice

Undervalued said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

Savvy_Sue said:

NeedSomeHRadvice said:

HampshireH said:

I've followed this with interest. People have given great advice in good faith. Your recent posts put a completely different spin on things and really should have been disclosed initially for people to have been able to advise on the overall picture 

Hi,

I'm not sure how much difference it makes to the original story TBH. The basic story is I am stuck with 2 basic references after I got dismissed 3 years ago from a previous job and have not had a job since. 

The details of me suing, settling etc aren't all that important as the basic issue is how to resolve the issue of the refs. The other issue may be that I am blackballed from working in this county, but thankfully the county is quite small and an hour of travelling puts me in a different county and if I needed to work even further away I am able to do that.

I'm just hoping you don't have a particularly distinctive name. I'd expect HR professionals across the UK to keep a passing interest in the results of employment tribunals, especially those lost by the NHS (and yes, I know there's a fair few). You won't be blackballed in any way that you'll ever discover, it's just that your name will ring bells to someone, somewhere, and you could look like Trouble. 

I'm hoping going through agencies will give you a way back into employment. 

It was settled out of court, both of them, I just checked the tribunal decisions and it's not on there and I expect if it was going to be on there then after 2 years it would have made it on there by now.

Re: blackballed. This still actually occurs and is widespread. Will see what happens.

Re: Agencies. They are looking for jobs for me, but main issue will anyone want to take on someone who has not practicsed for 2 years and will need some training if they can get someone who doesn't need training. It's not like the money is coming out of someone's personal pocket so the ward manager will probably prefer paying for a more expensive nurse that they don't have to train!

And in most cases it is perfectly lawful.

If a potential employer finds out that a candidate took a previous employer to a tribunal (or reached a settlement) that would be a perfectly lawful reason to reject them if they so choose, irrespective of the merits of the dispute.

Well they can reject you for any reason as long as it is not discrimination, but good luck proving that if they fudge the interview notes and score you lower. Not that I would even bother, last 2 were stressful enough and didn't even get to court!

NeedSomeHRadvice

LinLui said:

Coworkers probably don't know as it didn't go that far before they settled. 
I wouldn't rely on that assumption. In my experience they can find out and circulate information faster than email. Whilst I agree with you that blacklisting is far more prevalent than people think (especially within an employer, rather than across employers - the latter is riskier because it may be reported, and it's illegal) it's my experience that the way managers find out about past history is the gossip mill of other employees. It only takes one incautious comment made by someone about what you did that was overheard, and everyone will have known. And that's assuming managers didn't openly share the information.

One thing I will say. However you decide to cover up your history, try to ensure that the two versions truthfully sync. You may not disclose fully,  but be very careful that you don't mislead or lie.  As what I think is a decent manager, I've employed new staff with far "worse" records than yours. But on every occasion the employee has told the truth from the start. But I'd have a very different attitude if I were lied to - trust cannot be built from a foundation of lies. If I found someone had lied, I'd be inclined to seriously consider letting them go before they got employment rights. Litigatious employees are no employers dream candidates, and if you add "liar" to that equation, you have a perfect storm heading for a gross misconduct dismissal. 

And that's assuming managers didn't openly share the information.

This is an issue as some of the managers went to other Trusts and knew about the case. They all so have meetings with other managers in the region every so often, so there is the likelihood that others know. 

 try to ensure that the two versions truthfully sync. You may not disclose fully,  but be very careful that you don't mislead or lie. 

Not sure how much I could disclose as when I asked solicitor she said just say the job (at the employer that dismissed me) "just didn't work out" or words to that effect as under the agreement there is some form of NDA clause. What do you suggest I say that is not lying or misleading?

Regarding references

I tried to apply to volunteering places so that I could use them as a reference in the future and even they wanted references from past employer! So a catch 22. Maybe I should just stick to being unemployed and finish off my box sets of the Walking Dead??? Only issue is the NMC say I need to get back to work or else leave the register and getting back on will be a hassle!! 

LinLui

There's "some form of NDA clause"? What does that mean? Exactly. Not the rough,  roundabout, something or other, skirting around the truth / issue of the last 4 pages. I'm sorry,  but you are drip feeding facts to people who (a) don't really care about your history,  and (b) are trying to help you.

You got bullied,  left under a settlement agreement. You moved to a job you stayed in for very little time but somehow still managed to find cause to sue the employer and yet again let under a settlement agreement. Then you stayed off work for years,  apparently claiming to be a caring for a parent but actually watching box sets? And apparently you are so tainted, whilst obviously having done nothing wrong,  that your old managers and possibly colleagues "have it in for you" and would blackball / blacklist you if they could. What makes you so important that out of the thousands of NHS employees that will have gone through the system in the last few years,  they will all recall you? 

And your solicitor suggested lying? And now ..."Only issue is the NMC say I need to get back to work or else leave the register and getting back on will be a hassle!! " So you don't want to go back to work? It's just because of NMC rules? 

Realistically, this may all be true, but - seriously- would you believe it? Do you actually want to go back to nursing / work? Have you told us everything that transpired? I actually don't care if you murdered someone and spent years in jail. I've employed two of those! But if you really want help - real help - we need to know what is going on. Truthfully and fully.