PCN paid for by leasing company

LDast

Let the morons at the lease company figure it out. Simply tell them that there is a big difference between a Penalty Notice, which they keep referring to and a Parking Charge Notice which is simply an invoice from an unregulated private parking company. They can then go look up the difference if they are still confused.

"Please note, there is a big difference between a Penalty Notice, which you keep referring to and a Parking Charge Notice which is simply an invoice from an unregulated private parking company. I suggest you ask your legal advisors about the differences if you are still unsure."

travellover123

Hi all, 

Just an update on this, I received a call from the leasing company today saying that apparently my lease agreement says that if they pay the fines, I will then have to pay it and since G24 do not allow them to nominate me as the hirer they had no other option to pay so they will not be upholding my complaint. 

I tried to explain all the pointed you guys have mentioned above to them, including the difference between a penalty charge and a parking charge as well as sending them that letter they sent me when I received the third PCN but it was like talking to a brick wall they kept arguing that my lease agreement says if they pay I will then have to pay. 

I’ve told them to just send me all of this in writing and then I will be raising a case with BVRLA. 

Are there any specific points I need to mention when contacting BVRLA? 

Many thanks!

travellover123

Also no response from G24 yet.

travellover123

This is their email: 

"Thank you for your recent complaint. This letter sets out:

1. Our understanding of your complaint
2. Our investigation into the complaint
3. Whether the complaint is being upheld or not
4. Any action we are taking to resolve the complaint
5. Your rights if you disagree with our decision

Your Complaint

We received your complaint on the 6th of September 2024 by email. Our understanding is that you are dissatisfied with the fine and penalty process.

Our Investigation

As part of our review we have engaged with you and a number of sources, including our internal teams and systems. We have summarised our investigation below.

You have indicated that [Leasing Company] did not provide you with an opportunity to contest the parking charge. As [Leasing Company] has already paid the charge, you can no longer challenge the penalty.

Our investigation reveals that [Leasing Company] paid this fine because we were unable to transfer the liability in accordance with the issuing authority’s process, which aligns with the procedures outlined in your lease agreement. If you wish to appeal the fine, you will need to contact the issuing authority directly.

Our Decision

Having completed our investigation, we are sorry that we are unable to uphold your complaint as [Leasing Company] has not failed following the process.

We appreciate that this may not be the response that you are hoping for. We view the facts of each complaint individually and our decision is no reflection on the value we place on your loyalty as a customer. We hope our explanation will help you to understand the reasons for the decision made.

Next Steps

Based upon the information we have available at this time and following our complaints procedure, this is our final response. If you feel that we have missed something or have new information which may change our opinion, please feel free to contact us to discuss.

If you are unclear about anything covered in this correspondence or the action you now need to take, including any action we will be taking on your behalf, it’s important that you let us know so that we can provide you with further support.

If you remain unhappy you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months of the date of this letter.

If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances. Please find a copy of the Financial Ombudsman Service’s leaflet enclosed or you can visit their website at financial-ombudsman.org.uk

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ordering-leaflet/leaflet

Alternatively, you may refer your complaint to the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association’s conciliation service.  The BVRLA is an approved Alternative Dispute Resolution body. 

If you wish to contact them you can do so through their website at: https://www.bvrla.co.uk/consumer-advice/making-a-complaint-adr.html

Yours sincerely" 

LoneStarState

Whilst they claim that is their final response, it might be worth a parting salvo to let them know of their incompetence prior to escalating the complaint as you see fit.

Reiterate that penalties and fines are completely separate and legally distinct from parking charge notices.  It is somewhat concerning their internal investigation appears not to have involved consulting someone in the legal profession who would be aware that a parking charge notice is not a fine and/or a penalty.  Indeed this brings doubt onto the thoroughness of the investigation.

Companies that issue parking charge notices are merely private enterprises and are not "issuing authorities".  Again somewhat concerning their internal investigation did not identify this fact, even when BVRLA guidance refers to such organisations as private parking operators.

There is a process to transfer liability to a hirer/lessee, indeed the BVRLA has published such guidance and it continues to concern you that the leasing company is not aware of this process, or has willfully ignored it.

Maybe thank them for confirming why you will never be a repeat customer.

LDast

Our investigation reveals that [Leasing Company] paid this fine because we were unable to transfer the liability in accordance with the issuing authority’s process, which aligns with the procedures outlined in your lease agreement. If you wish to appeal the fine, you will need to contact the issuing authority directly.

Is there no limit to their intellectual malnourishment? Based on that sentence alone, I could send them an invoice for anything and state that I not allow them to transfer liability for it and then laugh all the way to the bank.

OP, you need to point out to the morons that a PPC is in no way, shape or form an "authority" that can issue anything except a simple invoice. Maybe a Letter of Claim (LoC) giving them 14 days to refund your money or else you'll issue a claim in the county court would make them sit up. Tell them to pass the letter on to their legal advisors if they are unable to comprehend the reason for it.

You should still use the BVRLA and Financial Ombudsman but they are incredibly slow processes. An LoC may trigger a more understanding attitude from them.

Half_way

To whom at may concern at the leasing company:

I am in receipt of your response and i am rejecting your reply as at best it is factually incorrect and full of falsehoods, at worse it is a deliberate attempt by yourselves to deceive and lie in order to obtain money from myself by deception for which you have no right to do so.

For example your letter clearly states

"Your Complaint

We received your complaint on the 6th of September 2024 by email. Our understanding is that you are dissatisfied with the fine and penalty process"

No fine has been issued, likewise no penalty has been issued, your above statement is false.

"You have indicated that [Leasing Company] did not provide you with an opportunity to contest the parking charge. As [Leasing Company] has already paid the charge, you can no longer challenge the penalty."

As previous, no penalty has been issued, again another false statement from yourselves

"Our investigation reveals that [Leasing Company] paid this fine because we were unable to transfer the liability in accordance with the issuing authority’s process, which aligns with the procedures outlined in your lease agreement. If you wish to appeal the fine, you will need to contact the issuing authority directly.

Again another false statement, there was no fine, and there was no issuing authority involved, this "ticket/charge" relates to an un regulated so-called parking company that belongs to a private members trade association known as the British Parking Association, the BPA have the following statement on their website

"We are a membership association and not a regulatory body."  (  https://www.britishparking.co.uk/about )

I will not be held liable or responsible for your own mistakes/stupidity and I do not appreciate having my valuable time wasted as a result of your incompetence, if you have paid these then that is a result of your own incompetence and you will not charge me.

 If you attempt to make a charge then i will have no option than to either block, or reverse any payments and/or take legal action against you to recover my costs including my time which currently stands at £36 for two hours

As a gesture of goodwill I am prepared to waiver my charges of £36 ( for time spent on this  so far) on the condition that you do not pass any charges you may have paid as a result of your own errors, and you educate and train your staff accordingly so that no future mistakes like this do not occur again

I look forward to a positive response from you on this issue

Le_Kirk

As a gesture of goodwill I am prepared to waiver waive my charges of £36 (for time spent on this  so far) on the condition that you do not pass any charges you may have paid as a result of your own errors, and you educate and train your staff accordingly so that no future mistakes like this do not occur again

You need the correct form of the word here.  Waiver is a noun and waive is the verb.

travellover123

LoneStarState said:

Reiterate that penalties and fines are completely separate and legally distinct from parking charge notices.  

Companies that issue parking charge notices are merely private enterprises and are not "issuing authorities".  Again somewhat concerning their internal investigation did not identify this fact, even when BVRLA guidance refers to such organisations as private parking operators.

There is a process to transfer liability to a hirer/lessee, indeed the BVRLA has published such guidance and it continues to concern you that the leasing company is not aware of this process, or has willfully ignored it.

I said all of this on the phone but it really was like talking to a brick wall, he just kept saying it says on my lease agreement that if they pay a penalty charge I have to pay it, I kept saying this is not a penalty charge but he just wouldn't listen, so annoying

I will send another email though, I didn't realise that complaining to BVRLA would be such a long process

travellover123

LDast said:

Our investigation reveals that [Leasing Company] paid this fine because we were unable to transfer the liability in accordance with the issuing authority’s process, which aligns with the procedures outlined in your lease agreement. If you wish to appeal the fine, you will need to contact the issuing authority directly.

OP, you need to point out to the morons that a PPC is in no way, shape or form an "authority" that can issue anything except a simple invoice. Maybe a Letter of Claim (LoC) giving them 14 days to refund your money or else you'll issue a claim in the county court would make them sit up. Tell them to pass the letter on to their legal advisors if they are unable to comprehend the reason for it.

You should still use the BVRLA and Financial Ombudsman but they are incredibly slow processes. An LoC may trigger a more understanding attitude from them.

Thank you! I will definitely send the LoC. Shall I wait for their response to my LoC before I raise it with BVRLA and Financial Ombudsman. 

They've already taken the £140 out of my account and I'd like it back asap really.