PCN paid for by leasing company

travellover123

Hi all, 

This is my first time posting on a forum so please excuse any mistakes I make! 

I have recieved two PCNs from a private car park (G24) for failing to pay my parking tarrif. (I did register my car for free parking however I stupidly entered an incorrect registarion). 

My issue is that my leasing company have paid for both of these PCNs without telling me and are now charing me for this. So now I'm not sure what grounds I have to appeal these PCNs on. They have told me I can appeal as the payment was only sent out via post today so they haven't recieevd it yet and if I win they'll refund me but I just don't understand why they would pay the charge instead of nomiating me as the driver/hirer which they usually do.

They said it's because G24 doesn't allow them to nomiate someone and the only option is to pay however I can see an option to nofity them of the driver on the actual ticket itself.

Is there anything I can do? Will I have any luck appealing this? 

Many thanks!

Gr1pr

If they paid them then its too late for any appeals 

If the leasing company are BVRLA members then they should have followed the BVRLA memorandum of understanding from several years ago and named you as the lessee/ hirer to G24 for each PCN, so that you would get the new replacement PCNs in your own name and your address, as an NtH for each one 

Yes the PCNs will have that nominate the hirer option, so the lease company should have used those options 

Depends on your lease agreement whether they can charge you or not, you signed up to the terms and conditions on the lease agreement, so check them 

As the registered keeper, they have every right to pay the PCNs, charging you instead of naming the lessee are different topics 

If you can appeal as the lessee ( no blabbing about who was driving or about the incident itself, ). Then do so, based on the PCNs not being compliant with POFA 2012, so no keeper liability, G24 will reject the appeals, no doubt about the outcome 

travellover123

They're telling me I can appeal based on the fact that they sent out the payment via post so G24 wouldn't have recieevd it yet.

The leasing company are BVRLA members, however I think they can charge me. 

In the terms and conditions it says: "If arising from your possession or use of the Vehicle any fees, fines (including all speeding, parking and any traffic congestion charge fines) or other sums or liabilities are referred or sent to us, we may charge you an administration fee as set out on page 2 for each such referral. We may (but shall not be obliged to) pay any such sum if you have not paid it. If we do so you agree to reimburse the amount we pay and we will charge you a further fee as set out on page 2 for each charge that we pay."

Are you saying if I appeal based on the PCNs not being compliant with POFA 2012, it will get rejected?

Many thanks for your reply and help!

travellover123

Can I use the following to appeal:
"Dear Sir/Madam
Re: PCN No.
I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

My street
My Town
My Postcode
I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) now it is proven that in this instance, the registered keeper is not the "keeper" (as defined under POFA), Civil Enforcement has no reason to contact leasing company name again regarding this PCN or any future PCNs.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either offer me a POPLA code or cancel the charge.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,
My name

travellover123

or should I not disclose my identity as the lessee? 

Gr1pr

You definitely disclose yourself as the lessee 

You definitely do not reveal to anybody who was driving 

It seems that the leasing company have failed to apply the BVRLA memorandum of understanding, so you may be able to take this to the BVRLA tribunal 

Yes I am saying that G24 will reject your appeal, IPC AOS members routinely reject appeals, regardless , they have been rejecting appeals for the last 9 years 

travellover123

ah i see so is there any point in me appealing? 

Gr1pr

Yes, because G24 may reply and offer the major keying error option as payment, or they may reject it and ask who was driving , you won't know if you don't appeal ( appeal each one separately. )

Add a one liner sentence stating that full payment was made but the wrong vehicle was chosen, if its true

Fruitcake

There is every point in appealing, especially if you state that the hirer/lessee cannot be held liable for the charge because the hirer has not received a PoFA 2012 compliant NTK. If it gets to court then you need to show the judge that you tried to narrow the issues by attempting to appeal. It isn't your fault that the new combined IPC/BPA CoP prevents a (day to day) keeper from appealing.

Your beef is currently with the hire company because either they breached the hire contract Ts and Cs by paying/attempting to pay the charge, or these Ts and Cs include an unfair contract term that removes your right to appeal, and your right to ADR.

You should complain to the hire company about this breach of BVRLA memorandum of understanding, and the breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because you have been denied your right to appeal and use ADR. If the hire company paid the charge instead even though they could not be held liable if they followed the BVRLA guidelines, and the requirements of the PoFA that would have absolved them of all liability.
By paying the charge, they have admitted liability by conduct. If they try to take the payment from you, then put it into dispute with the hire company and your financial provider.

travellover123

sorry what does "offer the major keying error option as payment" mean? Will I still have to pay something?
is what I sent above good enough to appeal with?
Full payment wasn't made as it was free parking, if I registered my registration on their systems which is what I did but I just got the last two digits the wrong way around

travellover123

Fruitcake said:

There is every point in appealing, especially if you state that the hirer/lessee cannot be held liable for the charge because the hirer has not received a PoFA 2012 compliant NTK. If it gets to court then you need to show the judge that you tried to narrow the issues by attempting to appeal. It isn't your fault that the new combined IPC/BPA CoP prevents a (day to day) keeper from appealing.

Thank you for your reply.
Is there a template somewhere about this that I could copy? 

Your beef is currently with the hire company because either they breached the hire contract Ts and Cs by paying/attempting to pay the charge, or these Ts and Cs include an unfair contract term that removes your right to appeal, and your right to ADR.

You should complain to the hire company about this breach of BVRLA memorandum of understanding, and the breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because you have been denied your right to appeal and use ADR. If the hire company paid the charge instead even though they could not be held liable if they followed the BVRLA guidelines, and the requirements of the PoFA that would have absolved them of all liability.
By paying the charge, they have admitted liability by conduct. If they try to take the payment from you, then put it into dispute with the hire company and your financial provider.

Shall I email their fines and penalties email about this? Again, is there a template for this somewhere?

The direct debit is due to come out of my account in a few weeks, shall I cancel the direct debit? I'm worried that will cause problems as it would also cancel my direct debit for the monthly rental