Missold car finance, lying and bullying by car dealership

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

1. I have a company letterhead print out, confirming a pre-order and timelines from the company MD and 2 of his complimentary cards. For a brand new family SUV yet to be released. Addressed to me with dates on them and a number of email exchanges confirming this

2. I have a set of emails, less than 2 hours after the pre- sales order print out, saying CONGRATS as you are accepted for our finance

... and they would offer me their cheapest car in their forecourt. Which I gladly declined saying it was not my taste. Then a 30mins follow up response saying ITS A TEMPORARY ARRANGEMENT pending you get option 1 above

It is not clear to me that the pre-order was ever processed as a full contract.
The OP mentioned upthread that the pre-order required a fee to be paid of £1k.
The OP has not confirmed that this £1k pre-order reservation fee was paid.  Without it, the pre-order would not be processed.

The communications about "accepted for finance" seem to relate to accepted for finance for the £17k hatchback, not the £50k SUV on pre-order.
It would not be possible for a finance to be accepted for the £50k car in a year or so time from whenever these discussions took place as any number of things could change in the OP's financial circumstance in that year.

Ehi said:

>>  IF A CAR OR CAR FINANCE AGREEMENT WAS MIS-SOLD OR MISDESCRIBED

If you feel that you’ve been misled about a key feature of the car or the finance agreement,

Please forgive me if I have mis-understood, but you appear to have taken out a £17k finance agreement for a 7 yo hatchback car.
You seem to think you should have taken out a £50k finance agreement for a brand new SUV.

It does seem to be rather stretching the limits of credibility that this falls under the extent of "misled about a key feature"

Olinda99 said:

whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, the OP clearly has been into a dealership and come away with completely the wrong impression about what they have agreed to. 

this should not happen and it particular it should not happen when finance is involved

they went into the dealer with the objective of ordering a new car under finance and came away with a second-hand car under a different finance agreement but with the impression that this was some kind of temporary purchase whilst the car on order was being manufactured

they then discover that not only is there no new car on order but they are stuck with this second hand one

It is clear there has been a misunderstanding / miscommunication somewhere along the way.  In the ideal world, misunderstandings / miscommunications would never happen.  It is not clear what, how, when that misunderstanding / miscommunication happened in this case.

The OP is no more stuck with the second hand car than if the pre-order for the new car had been processed as the OP understood to be the case (though not confirmed whether the pre-order reservation fee was paid).
Let's consider that the pre-order should have been processed and the OP waiting 12 months for the brand new car, so it would be like this:

• The OP purchased a second-hand car for £17k
  
• The OP pre-ordered the brand new car to be ready in 12 months
• When the 12-months arrived, the OP could trade-in (for whatever market value is at that point) the second hand car.
• The OP will not get back the full original £17k paid for the second hand car
• The OP buys the brand new car for £50k

So, the part that did not happen is the pre-order meaning that the 12-month clock did not start on the brand new car.
If the OP still wants the brand new car, the OP can still order one. 
When the brand new car is ready, the OP can still trade in the second hand car.
It may even be that the brand new car ordered now will be available just as quick as the pre-ordered car from the beginning of the year if the car is now released.  (We can't comment as the OP won't say what car it was.)
The OP can also sell the second hand car to another purchaser if they offer more money than the supplier of the brand new car.
The OP is not stuck with the second hand car.

The concept of a "temporary" purchase is really all a misnomer. 
I have made several "temporary" or "stop-gap" purchases over the years but there is no such thing as "temporary" any more than everything we buy is "temporary".
A purchase is a purchase and we own that thing until such time as we sell that thing (or otherwise dispose of it).

photome

And again Grumpy has nailed it…I think 😀

Ehi

Olinda99 said:

whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, the OP clearly has been into a dealership and come away with completely the wrong impression about what they have agreed to. 

this should not happen and it particular it should not happen when finance is involved

they went into the dealer with the objective of ordering a new car under finance and came away with a second-hand car under a different finance agreement but with the impression that this was some kind of temporary purchase whilst the car on order was being manufactured

they then discover that not only is there no new car on order but they are stuck with this second hand one

@Olinda99 Thank you, thank you and once again thank you.

You are 100% + and extra 1% on point. Perfect understanding and clarification. Respecftully and with appreciation, I wont address other points/comments, as they are off point. But extremely helpful, 


The dealership final response to my complaint and to the finance HQ, they claimed the MD never spoke to me, when he was the only person I repeatedly spoke to for well over 4 weeks, until he ordered a sales rep to take my order. Then the chaos

here is my intro submission to the FSO, then after which a short write up, then a chronology of events, and then a final part quoting the law, safeguarding rules and what I desire from the FSO

IN A NUTSHELL

My complaint is lengthy, a bit complex. But ultimately simple.

...My complaint and the XXX dealership's final response are in stack contradictions. Obviously one party is not telling the truth. I strongly feel I have been mislead, lied to, bullied, denied any right to complain and completely ignored. Neither were any of the safeguarding rules/law set by the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) observed

This should never happen, especially when finance is involved 

WHAT I DESIRE FROM THE AUTHORITIES

** Excerpts removed **

Firstly, request all detail info, the dealership has on me, and secondly, a thorough and undiluted investigation: including a, one to one discuss (Myself and the MD, of whom I initially spoke at length with), whereby we could establish truth and guidelines set by the FCA

XXX Dealership is the x biggest car manufacturer globally .....    ... and I expect truth and honesty, while dealing with them 

user1977

Your expectations seem rather unrealistic. Who exactly are "the authorities"?

Where did you get the idea that you had a right to a "one to one discuss" [sic] with the MD? 

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

here is my intro submission to the FSO, then after which a short write up, then a chronology of events, and then a final part quoting the law, safeguarding rules and what I desire from the FSO

IN A NUTSHELL

My complaint is lengthy, a bit complex. But ultimately simple.

...My complaint and the XXX dealership's final response are in stack contradictions. Obviously one party is not telling the truth. I strongly feel I have been mislead, lied to, bullied, denied any right to complain and completely ignored. Neither were any of the safeguarding rules/law set by the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) observed

This should never happen, especially when finance is involved 

WHAT I DESIRE FROM THE AUTHORITIES

** Excerpts removed **

Firstly, request all detail info, the dealership has on me, and secondly, a thorough and undiluted investigation: including a, one to one discuss (Myself and the MD, of whom I initially spoke at length with), whereby we could establish truth and guidelines set by the FCA

XXX Dealership is the x biggest car manufacturer globally .....    ... and I expect truth and honesty, while dealing with them 

I won't comment on the content of your draft, but it would benefit from being proof-read and grammar corrected before submission.

What outcome do you hope to achieve?
A full refund is highly unlikely after 7 or 8 months using the car.

Ehi

user1977 said:

Your expectations seem rather unrealistic. Who exactly are "the authorities"?

Where did you get the idea that you had a right to a "one to one discuss" [sic] with the MD? 

Seems you dont know how these things work, I did mention, I have been through a divorce, mediation, family courts, used the different tiers of ombudsman etc a number of times and the process is simple. Each party states their grieviances and as you go back and forth obviously the contradictions will fall apart.

If a dealership MD in their final submission denies he ever spoke to me, and I have 2 company letterheads (A quote and a timeline), then he should explain that, as well as his 2 complimentary cards and emails came from. I think you should read @Olinda99 response, as its spot on

I also have posted this link a few times, it would do you good to read it . https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/car-finance

born_again

Ehi said:

user1977 said:

Your expectations seem rather unrealistic. Who exactly are "the authorities"?

Where did you get the idea that you had a right to a "one to one discuss" [sic] with the MD? 

Seems you dont know how these things work, I did mention, I have been through a divorce, mediation, family courts, used the different tiers of ombudsman etc a number of times and the process is simple. Each party states their grieviances and as you go back and forth obviously the contradictions will fall apart.

If a dealership MD in their final submission denies he ever spoke to me, and I have 2 company letterheads (A quote and a timeline), then he should explain that, as well as his 2 complimentary cards and emails came from. I think you should read @Olinda99 response, as its spot on

I also have posted this link a few times, it would do you good to read it . https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/car-finance

FOS looks at evidence from both sides,  in the1st instance it is handled by a Investigator, who will then make a decision based on the evidence & if any of that falls under their remit. If either party is not happy with that outcome, it then goes to an Ombudsman. Who's decision is final & binding.

FOS can only deal with the finance providers. They have no remit over the dealer & what they have done.

user1977

Ehi said:

user1977 said:

Your expectations seem rather unrealistic. Who exactly are "the authorities"?

Where did you get the idea that you had a right to a "one to one discuss" [sic] with the MD? 

I also have posted this link a few times, it would do you good to read it . https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/car-finance

Can you point us to where it suggests you are entitled to a "one to one discuss with the MD"?

Ehi

born_again said:

FOS looks at evidence from both sides,  in the1st instance it is handled by a Investigator, who will then make a decision based on the evidence & if any of that falls under their remit. If either party is not happy with that outcome, it then goes to an Ombudsman. Who's decision is final & binding.

FOS can only deal with the finance providers. They have no remit over the dealer & what they have done.

spot on, thats what I am expecting.

Their are laid out guidelines, specified on their website and parent website. Which I have been banging on, since the start of my complaint, THAT HAVE NOT BEEN FOLLOWED.

sheramber

What guidelines have  the finance company not followed?

You need to narrow down your complaint.

What the dealer did or did not say or do is not relevant to the finance company.

They accepted an application for loan arrangement on the car you have. End of.  

All the information about the pre order is nothing to do with them which is why they ignore you.

The ombudsman will not be concerned with the pre order situation. That does not come under his remit. 

So, what have the finance company done wrong?