Missold car finance, lying and bullying by car dealership

mybestattempt

Olinda99 said:

if I take the OP's original post at face value it seems as they they were scammed - and I used the word advisedly -  into taking out a finance agreement for a car they did not want. In fact I would go as far as to say I have never heard of anything so blatently deceptive as this.

that being so I would definitely go to the finance company and demand the cancellation of the contract, return of all.payments made and return of the car to.the garage

I'm sure the OP has said the finance company told him he had no evidence and has ignored him since.

The FOS will, of course, consider what both the dealer and finance company have to say and if the dispute goes to court a judge will too.

Grumpy_chap

I think it might be helpful if the OP can clarify when the whole saga started and where the interim second hand car is now?

I had initially read that the OP had the interim car for around 7 months until now, so the whole process would have commenced at the beginning of this year (2024), but reading the post again, I wonder whether the timeline is more protracted?

Ehi said:

I saw mass advertizing of a car on youtube and adverts sent to my phone. So (having never owned a brand new car) I went to a car dealership and asked for the car. 

I was told it was lead time was 13months 

2. I was told ( by the dealership) and all other 5 dealerships I went to locally, there is no brand new car, due to backlog of covid and war in ukraine

9. Seven Months down the line, they asked me to bring the car in for a service and pay

Now the Financial Ombudsman has accepted my case and I am drafting my complaint which basically has 

The extensive supply-chain delays resulting from Covid and Ukraine were largely resolved some time before 2024.  That does not mean there are no cars still with a long lead time, just not that the reason given is necessarily valid.

The OP has now exhausted the Dealer's / Finance Company's compliant processes and had the case accepted by the Ombudsman.  How quickly does the Ombudsman take to process a complaint?

Is the whole timeline here a couple of years rather than 7 months or so?
If the timeline is longer and the OP still has the interim second hand car, that could certainly influence the likely remedy - particularly any deduction for beneficial use.

Ehi

With all due respect. If I sound, angry, upset, mixed emotions, unreasonable or such. Then apologies and kindly ignore. 

I need to stay focused. I was told to come to MSE to ask advice on how to submit my case "WITHOUT THE EMOTIONS"

Ehi

1. THE GENESIS

I never bought a brand new car before and never understood PCP. But earn a very decent salary. My last car, had DPF and electric power steering issues (which cost both £3,500 x 2) to replace, and at this point I said no more

Via Autotrader. I saw an brand new SUV online ( A family car) with perks and options never seen before, I got zuto finance and called all dealerships in the UK ( About 6 of them), who said I have to pre-order and its a 4 months wait and invited me down for a testdrive. I felt it was a bit of travel, going to another city just for a testdrive, so went to my local dealer, who printed out the official letterhead and said its 13months and insisted all others were lying. Which he further described on email as CARROT AND STICK and warned repeatedly not to fall into a trap repeatedly

We exchanged emails with PCP and HP quotes on this. Strictly brand new cars ( And the other dealers nationwide too sent me numerous quotes)

After test driving the top of the range car, I loved it and about 4 weeks negotiating, I asked to pre-order, using the finance I had from zuto.Bear in mind, i had car trouble and my old car was being fixed, so I was riding a push bike and caught in the rain, that day

2. WHERE IT ALL WENT WRONG

After printing out a quote. He said He cant use zuto finance, and asked me to pick a 2nd hand car in the forecourt to see if I would be accepted. He said ( and not me) he would use the cheapest and, then I went home. (No advise was given, I REPEAT NONE) 

I got an email saying I was accepted (from the dealership and not finance company) and they could offer me the 2nd hand car, as a temp car. I replied saying, no I rather have a bigger car and mentioned another option (Which they said they did not have, as I have never had a look at 2nd hand cars or their website). And they replied its a temp car, pending my wait. I spoke to the finance HQ, who clearly said, I pay monthly. So I jumped on board

3. UNACCEPTABLE 

6+ months down the line, I am told. They made mistakes, no car was ordered, I am denied access to the MD ( who I was originally speaking to) I asked to speak to managment and was refused. their HQ final response, claims I got the brand new car spec, which has the dealership letterhead and signature (ON MY OWN) and not from them and I should bring it in for a service, the PCP had a service quote, which I was told was for next year. But then never refunded

Finance company: Summary is I came to buy a 2nd hand car and nothing else. Case closed ( I never spoke to the MD or anyone else) When I have 2 original complimentary cards from the MD and one from his deputy, amongst 2 print outs from him

I printed out my emails and 2 letterhead from the dealership amongst other brochures and asked where I got them from, and till today, no one has replied. I have repeatedly called the finance, Head office, emailed and dealership and has been totally and completely ignored. I am told if I wanted to opt out, I would pay £3,000 ( which is not in the contract, neither was explained to me)

IF THIS IS NOT UN-ACCEPTABLE, Then I dont know what is. Moving forward. I just am asking how to lodge my complaint, which I send off on monday

I started off inquiring about a brand new SUV and ended up with a 7 year old small hatch



4. SOLICITORS

I have spoken to a few no win no fee solicitors, who said they could get me 100% of my money back, but they would take 30%. I spoke to the Ombudsman, who said, the fact I was refused to lodge any complaint and finance HQ, refused to respond to my emails and calls is unacceptable

6. THE COMPANY IN QUESTION

Is one of the top 4 car manufacturers globally and not one of the new comers 



MOVING FORWARD
I was told MSE could give me good advise on presenting my complicated case. I have drafted out a MS Word document with 3 pages. 

1. 6 Lines of introduction
2. 21 Bullet chronology story points
3. Summary interaction and refusal to let me complain - Hence the FOS
4. Bullet points I got off his website - https://claimformycar.com/mis-sold-car-finance-signs/
5. Summary compensation 

Any futher advise please ?

DE_612183

Couple of points:

What it looks like happened is you were refused finance, so the dealership ( not the manufacturer - there is a difference ) offered to try and get you finance for a lower price car that worked out.

You accepted this and drove off.

If you were refused finance on your original choice - how did you expect that to change?

The dealership cannot order you a new car if you have no way of paying for it.

The fact that it's "top 4 manufacturers globally" is irrelevant - it's the franchise you are dealing with - the manufacturer will only get involved if it's a fault with the car - the finance company is also probably a separate company as well.

Whilst I don't dispute you feel may have been misled, your comments read as someone would speak rather than written statements of facts.

I would NEVER use no fee no win solicitors - they will try and tell you that you have case on the slim chance that they get a win.

Get proper advice from a proper solicitor even if you need to pay £100 for a initial appointment.

I still don't get the bit about a service:
Was the service due as per the manufacturers guidelines?
Did you pay for the service?
What about the service are you seeking a refund of?

Can you also add in some financial info -

What was the original quote for the brand new car?
What price did you eventually agree to for the 7 year old car?

I would suspect there is a huge difference in the two.

I also suspect that as you were refused finance on your original car, the dealership tried to help you ( as you were using a bike ) and got you a car that you could afford, and thought when your finances improved you could come back and get the new car you wanted.

redped

Ehi said:

MOVING FORWARD
I was told MSE could give me good advise on presenting my complicated case. I have drafted out a MS Word document with 3 pages. 

1. 6 Lines of introduction
2. 21 Bullet chronology story points
3. Summary interaction and refusal to let me complain - Hence the FOS
4. Bullet points I got off his website - https://claimformycar.com/mis-sold-car-finance-signs/
5. Summary compensation 

Any futher advise please ?

My only advice is to make sure your Word doc is as easy to read as possible, as unfortunately it's hard to follow some of what you've written.  For example:

Via Autotrader. I saw an brand new SUV online ( A family car) with perks and options never seen before, I got zuto finance and called all dealerships in the UK ( About 6 of them), who said I have to pre-order and its a 4 months wait and invited me down for a testdrive. I felt it was a bit of travel, going to another city just for a testdrive, so went to my local dealer, who printed out the official letterhead and said its 13months and insisted all others were lying. Which he further described on email as CARROT AND STICK and warned repeatedly not to fall into a trap repeatedly

This doesn't make sense - you talk about a top-4 global car manufacturer, yet they've only got approx. 6 dealerships in the UK; they all said a 4 month wait, yet you went to your local dealer who quoted 13 months - is the local dealer one of the 6 dealers in the UK?

Another minor point is your use of commas versus full stops - you've a number of places where you use the latter rather than the former, meaning (again) it's not easy to follow what you're trying to say.  For example:

6+ months down the line, I am told. They made mistakes, no car was ordered, I am denied access to the MD ( who I was originally speaking to) I asked to speak to managment and was refused. their HQ final response, claims I got the brand new car spec, which has the dealership letterhead and signature (ON MY OWN) and not from them and I should bring it in for a service, the PCP had a service quote, which I was told was for next year. But then never refunded

electriccactus

Ehi said:

MOVING FORWARD
I was told MSE could give me good advise on presenting my complicated case. I have drafted out a MS Word document with 3 pages. 

1. 6 Lines of introduction
2. 21 Bullet chronology story points
3. Summary interaction and refusal to let me complain - Hence the FOS
4. Bullet points I got off his website - https://claimformycar.com/mis-sold-car-finance-signs/
5. Summary compensation 

Any futher advise please ?

That website is specifically for where the finance itself was missold. In this case, it wasn't.

I cannot make heads nor tails of what happened as the story doesn't make sense. Who walks into a dealer wanting to preorder a brand new car and then is told to buy a second-hand car (and any car at that) as a temporary agreement? And then actually goes ahead with it?

If someone said that to me it wouldn't just be red flashing lights going off, it'd be a full battery of air raid sirens as well. I'd think they'd gone mad.

I think honestly that the story seems so far-fetched that the dealer will come in with a seemingly more plausible series of events (which likely won't involve this strange take any second hand car for the time being instead of preordering a brand new one) and you will have trouble getting anyone to believe your side of it.

Best of luck though.

mybestattempt

@Ehi

You mentioned earlier you have a cousin who is a solicitor.

I suggest you ask him/her to read your word document, all the email exchanges and the finance agreement and to advise you.

Ehi

redped said:

This doesn't make sense - you talk about a top-4 global car manufacturer, yet they've only got approx. 6 dealerships in the UK; they all said a 4 month wait, yet you went to your local dealer who quoted 13 months - is the local dealer one of the 6 dealers in the UK?

Another minor point is your use of commas versus full stops - you've a number of places where you use the latter rather than the former, meaning (again) it's not easy to follow what you're trying to say.  For example:

lol

They have dealerships all over the country, Both cities and towns 

...but  (For the vehicle in question) only 6 dealerships placed adverts on autotrader. But when I called them the story changed, saying I had to wait 4 months and asked me to come down for a test drive, and upon investigation. They would say, I pay £1,000 to pre-order ( As they did not have the vehicle they were advertising).

So I went to my I went to my local dealer (Who had NOT placed any advert on autotrader) my local dealer, said they were lying and gave me a company letterhead timeline, which said 13 months. My local dealer, then kept warning me about falling victim, which they said verbally and on email


DE_612183

I was not refused finance, I have never bought a brand new car before, but when this dealer was advertizing an extended warranty and all the perks, I took my OLD finance company and went to inquire and since I have only used autotrader, I used their finance company called zuto, which is a 3rd party finance

I do no plan to use a solicitor, I am only just seeking advise from everyone. Before I submit my complain next week monday. to the FSO

ABOUT THE SERVICE. ...after the 2nd hand car was missold, (The dealer said) that It had been service and I should just enjoy driving until my car arrives in 12months, ....       later to be told. It was a mistake and the care was due a service. I was quoted a monthly PCP and an additional service charge, of £29 which (the initially said) would be refunded, just to be told 6/7 months later, it was an error and was never refunded.

electriccactus said:

I cannot make heads nor tails of what happened as the story doesn't make sense. Who walks into a dealer wanting to preorder a brand new car and then is told to buy a second-hand car (and any car at that) as a temporary agreement? And then actually goes ahead with it?

If someone said that to me it wouldn't just be red flashing lights going off, it'd be a full battery of air raid sirens as well. I'd think they'd gone mad.

I think honestly that the story seems so far-fetched that the dealer will come in with a seemingly more plausible series of events (which likely won't involve this strange take any second hand car for the time being instead of preordering a brand new one) and you will have trouble getting anyone to believe your side of it.

Best of luck though.

Though the dealers where advertizing the brand new car all over youtube, autotrader, car magazines etc. I was told there is none to order, as its a pre-order and payment of £1,000 and a waiting period of 4 months.

At the dealership local to me, I was told, the other dealers are lying and selling me a carrot ( This is clearly stated in my emails) and the waiting time was 13 months, hence the 2nd hand "TEMPORARY" vehicle was offered to me. Which made sense. 

As I dont think you go to a local dealer thinking they are scammers ???

Alderbank

DE_612183 said:

I would NEVER use no fee no win solicitors - they will try and tell you that you have case on the slim chance that they get a win.

Get proper advice from a proper solicitor even if you need to pay £100 for a initial appointment.

No win no fee solicitors are 'proper' solicitors. Most take on both fee paid and conditional fee work.

No win no fee doesn't mean that they accept that if they lose in court they have done all that work for free! Solicitors don't gamble with their own money.
They only accept a conditional fee arrangement if it is almost certain (no court case is 100%) that they will win. They then take out a special insurance which will pay their fees if they lose, for which they have to convince the insurer's hard-nosed solicitors that the case is as good as in the bag, otherwise they will face a load of grief afterwards.

If you agree to pay their fees win or lose then they should take on your case however slim your chances of winning are. However solicitors' rules mean they must impartially explain all the risks and possible consequences of legal action.