Missold car finance, lying and bullying by car dealership

DE_612183

Ehi said:

redped said:

This doesn't make sense - you talk about a top-4 global car manufacturer, yet they've only got approx. 6 dealerships in the UK; they all said a 4 month wait, yet you went to your local dealer who quoted 13 months - is the local dealer one of the 6 dealers in the UK?

Another minor point is your use of commas versus full stops - you've a number of places where you use the latter rather than the former, meaning (again) it's not easy to follow what you're trying to say.  For example:

lol

They have dealerships all over the country, Both cities and towns 

...but  (For the vehicle in question) only 6 dealerships placed adverts on autotrader. But when I called them the story changed, saying I had to wait 4 months and asked me to come down for a test drive, and upon investigation. They would say, I pay £1,000 to pre-order ( As they did not have the vehicle they were advertising).

So I went to my I went to my local dealer (Who had NOT placed any advert on autotrader) my local dealer, said they were lying and gave me a company letterhead timeline, which said 13 months. My local dealer, then kept warning me about falling victim, which they said verbally and on email


DE_612183

I was not refused finance, I have never bought a brand new car before, but when this dealer was advertizing an extended warranty and all the perks, I took my OLD finance company and went to inquire and since I have only used autotrader, I used their finance company called zuto, which is a 3rd party finance

I do no plan to use a solicitor, I am only just seeking advise from everyone. Before I submit my complain next week monday. to the FSO

ABOUT THE SERVICE. ...after the 2nd hand car was missold, (The dealer said) that It had been service and I should just enjoy driving until my car arrives in 12months, ....       later to be told. It was a mistake and the care was due a service. I was quoted a monthly PCP and an additional service charge, of £29 which (the initially said) would be refunded, just to be told 6/7 months later, it was an error and was never refunded.

electriccactus said:

I cannot make heads nor tails of what happened as the story doesn't make sense. Who walks into a dealer wanting to preorder a brand new car and then is told to buy a second-hand car (and any car at that) as a temporary agreement? And then actually goes ahead with it?

If someone said that to me it wouldn't just be red flashing lights going off, it'd be a full battery of air raid sirens as well. I'd think they'd gone mad.

I think honestly that the story seems so far-fetched that the dealer will come in with a seemingly more plausible series of events (which likely won't involve this strange take any second hand car for the time being instead of preordering a brand new one) and you will have trouble getting anyone to believe your side of it.

Best of luck though.

Though the dealers where advertizing the brand new car all over youtube, autotrader, car magazines etc. I was told there is none to order, as its a pre-order and payment of £1,000 and a waiting period of 4 months.

At the dealership local to me, I was told, the other dealers are lying and selling me a carrot ( This is clearly stated in my emails) and the waiting time was 13 months, hence the 2nd hand "TEMPORARY" vehicle was offered to me. Which made sense. 

As I dont think you go to a local dealer thinking they are scammers ???

Sorry if I read wrong - but this is the phrase I picked up on "After printing out a quote. He said He cant use zuto finance, and asked me to pick a 2nd hand car" - to me that sounds like you were refused finance and offered a different deal.

As I said ( and other have said ) you need to get your thoughts and sentences more explicit - you write s you would speak - but as we cannot hear it's hard to work out the meaning of what you want to communicate.

This other paragraph does also not make sense:

I was not refused finance, I have never bought a brand new car before, but when this dealer was advertizing an extended warranty and all the perks, I took my OLD finance company and went to inquire and since I have only used autotrader, I used their finance company called zuto, which is a 3rd party finance

What has the OLD finance company got to do with it?
Autotrader is just an advertising site
Zuto is just an advert of their site.

What did the dealers finance company say about the finance agreement on the new car?

What figures are involved - how much was the new car - how much was the 2nd hard car you eventually got?

Did you have any part-exhange?

What did you understand would happen to the 2nd hand car when the new one arrived?

Grumpy_chap

DE_612183 said:

Couple of points:

What it looks like happened is you were refused finance, so the dealership ( not the manufacturer - there is a difference ) offered to try and get you finance for a lower price car that worked out.

You accepted this and drove off.

If you were refused finance on your original choice - how did you expect that to change?

I am not sure that the OP was refused finance.  I agree some of the posts are confusing to read, but my understanding was that:

• The OP saw a car (large SUV with top equipment spec) on Autotrader.
• The OP arranged their own finance online (Zuto finance).
• The OP visited the Dealer (as a cash buyer with their own finance) but tried to combine the "cash buyer" status with the PCP incentives.  The Dealer could not combine the PCP incentives with the Zuto finance that the OP had arranged.
• The SUV car that the OP wanted was on a long lead time.  The OP needed a car quickly because of faults with their current car.
• No order was placed for the brand new car - whether that was mistake, or misunderstanding, or something else, the fact remains that this order was never placed.  No deposit was paid for the brand new SUV.  No  Dealer finance (PCP) was in place for the brand new SUV.  
• (One assumes the Zuto finance arranged by the OP just never completed.)
• The OP ordered, with PCP finance, an alternative car which was a 7 yo small hatchback (not a brand new SUV).
• The PCP for the second hand car may (or may not) have included a service plan.
• After 7 months or so, the second hand car needed a service and this was not covered by a service plan (though the OP expected it should be).

If that is the correct understanding, then it is difficult to see how there is any complaint for mis-selling the finance.  Certainly, the finance provider will simply have received an application for PCP finance on the 7 yo small hatchback and processed accordingly.

There may be a claim for the cost of the service if the finance package included a service plan but was not honoured when the 7 yo car required service.  

There does not seem to be any claim with respect to the brand new SUV which was never ordered.  The remedy here would be for the OP to now order that SUV and await delivery at whatever the lead time is now.  Assuming the Dealer / Manufacturer is willing to accept the business.

Except, with the above understanding it is hard to see where any claim would exist (which might suggest why the Finance Company and the Dealer / Manufacturer are simply refusing to deal with the OP), however a no-win-no-fee Solicitor has apparently agreed to take the case on so they must see something I am missing.  Though, earlier in the thread, the OP mentioned a relative was a Solicitor so it is unclear why the relative would not assist instead of a no-win-no-fee firm.

EDIT:

Ehi said:

Though the dealers where advertizing the brand new car all over youtube, autotrader, car magazines etc. I was told there is none to order, as its a pre-order and payment of £1,000 and a waiting period of 4 months.

At the dealership local to me, I was told, the other dealers are lying and selling me a carrot ( This is clearly stated in my emails) and the waiting time was 13 months, hence the 2nd hand "TEMPORARY" vehicle was offered to me. Which made sense. 

So, did you pay that £1k deposit for the brand new car to anybody?
If not, it would seem to confirm that there is no order ever placed for the brand new car.

DE_612183

@Grumpy_chap - well done - I think you have extracted the salient facts!

Hoenir

A preorder is not an order. Did you ever place a formal order? 

Ehi

@DE_612183


NO, no and no. I was not refused finance. What I said, was ...

I got finance from zuto, as they are autotrader's PREFERRED option, as I had only been searching online for a car (and not via a dealer) It was when I could not get a car online, I resorted to my local dealership to ask the situation of things ( I repeat, my local dealership) was not advertising online. But about 6 others where advertising for a car, they did not have

It was at this point, my local dealerhip, said they could offer me cheaper finance, but I need a shortlist car, to present to the finance company and not a pre-order future vehicle. MOST IMPORTANTLY at present nobody had brand new cars, except to be pre-ordered. Lastly i cant use a pre-ordered car to seek finance.  (as my desired car, had not been released)

Hope that part is clear ?

and no, I did not part exchange. The new car was shy of £50,000 and the 2nd hand car was £17,000


@Grumpy_chap 

QUOTE
No order was placed for the brand new car - whether that was mistake, or misunderstanding, or something else, the fact remains that this order was never placed.  No deposit was paid for the brand new SUV.  No  Dealer finance (PCP) was in place for the brand new SUV. 

No, no no. 
My entire argument, I have been banging on about is with the dishonesty of the dealership. Why on earthy will a global company, be advertizing a car that (even after 13 months ) still does not exist ???

As when I got zuto finance of autotrader, it was simply because I was ready to purchase a car, hence eventually went to the dealership, (not to sing, clap my hands and dance with a cup of tea), but to make a purchase. END OF 

It was at that point, the dearlership, advised, YOU CANNOT PURCHASE A CAR, THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED. rather, make a pre-order and when its ready, we will inform you. and I repeat, this is my last statement of discontentment comes into play. voilates the FCA terms, as things were not properly explained, neither were they honest. So the mistake is on them and not me. CASE CLOSED

• after 7 months or so, the second hand car needed a service and this was not covered by a service plan (though the OP expected it should be)

No, I did mention, the sales rep came to my house 2 days later, claiming a mistake had been made, and I must sign up for a service plan at £29 PCM, which they took for 6 months and refused to refund

If that is the correct understanding, then it is difficult to see how there is any complaint for mis-selling the finance.  Certainly, the finance provider will simply have received an application for PCP finance on the 7 yo small hatchback and processed accordingly.

I think you are missing a number of salient points and I would repeat them again.

1. I never asked for a 2nd hand small hatchback. Rather a brand new family suv

2. The 2nd hand car was suggested by the dealer, when they asked how I intend to finance the car and then offered me a much cheaper option and to verify, they said they need a test car to submit to see if I would be accepted. Nothing was agreed in principle or explained. It was when I was accepted, they offered me a temporary car

I did not see any reason to feel scammed or that they were being dishonest, so I accepted

Kindly look at this 

https://claimformycar.com/mis-sold-car-finance-signs/

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mis-sold-car-finance/

Excerpts

1. Lack of clarity on costs or the contract

1. Lack of affordability checks

1. Faulty or unsatisfactory vehicle

Finally, the email they sent me, nothing in the contract was explained. No where does the contract say if I opt out, I would pay the £3,000 fee ( as it simply said monthly PCP) the email says it was a temp arrangement, and I could swap once my new car arrives. 

When they could not get the new car, they said they are happy to swap with another 2nd hand car within thier forecourt, which I refused. (Which invariably means, I am stuck with 3 year contract on 2nd hand cars, or keep swapping 2nd hand cars with them) and nothing to do with a new car or family SUV

 I can go on and on

Ehi

I dont think my case is complex whatsoever or difficult to understand.

If I put a photo on a dating website of an unsuspecting person's dream date (That does not exist) and lure the individual into an endless ( Kick the can down the road scam ) I dont think everyone would smile and go home and have a cuppa

Same goes if I advertize a 3rd party good, product, service on amazon or ebay or the likes, I could not provide.  Or the unsuspecting emails promising you have won something or the likes.

A scam is a scam and should be called out. Yes I was given a temp car and then bullied into a corner and told I had no right to complain, then fabricated stories made up

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

 The new car was shy of £50,000 and the 2nd hand car was £17,000

I think you are missing a number of salient points and I would repeat them again.

1. I never asked for a 2nd hand small hatchback. Rather a brand new family suv

2. The 2nd hand car was suggested by the dealer, when they asked how I intend to finance the car and then offered me a much cheaper option and to verify, they said they need a test car to submit to see if I would be accepted. Nothing was agreed in principle or explained. It was when I was accepted, they offered me a temporary car

So, did you take out PCP finance for £50k?
OR for £17k?

It really does seem as though, whatever you intended, you actually placed an order for, and paid for, a £17k small 7yo hatchback.  (Though that is a lot for such a car - except we can't really asses given how you won't divulge what make of car or which models of car are involved.)

Ehi said:

Why on earthy will a global company, be advertizing a car that (even after 13 months ) still does not exist ???

It is not unusual for manufacturers to market future models to generate and gauge the potential interest.

It still seems as though you have not actually placed the pre-order or order for the £50k SUV.  Particularly as you indicated that the pre-order required a £1k deposit which you have not confirmed was ever paid.

It would also help if you can be clearer on timescales.  Earlier in the thread, you mention the SUV being on 13-month lead time, but that only 7 months have passed.  Now you indicate the whole 13-month are already passed.

Ehi said:

• after 7 months or so, the second hand car needed a service and this was not covered by a service plan (though the OP expected it should be)

No, I did mention, the sales rep came to my house 2 days later, claiming a mistake had been made, and I must sign up for a service plan at £29 PCM, which they took for 6 months and refused to refund

You may quite possibly have a claim for the cost of the service, depending on the details of the service plan that you purchased and paid for.

If, however, the service plan was for routine servicing within 6 months and you did not get the car serviced until 7 months, you may have been outside the service plan.


It really is important that you find a way to record the sequence of events in a clear and concise manner - without emotion - as any case heard by an ombudsman could fail if they cannot understand your position, even if there might otherwise be a case.

photome

I think Grumpy has it nailed and the OP has not been missold anything

he hasnt ordered a new car but has bought a second hand car on PCP, surely no one does that unless they want to

Hoenir

Grumpy_chap said:

It is not unusual for manufacturers to market future models to generate and gauge the potential interest.

In the case of pre orders merely secures an option to place an order (ahead of others) when productiion becomes available. Pre orders will lapse at point in time. They don't confer an open ended right. Tesla took many thousands of pre orders for it's Cybertruck. Was just $250 and refundable too. 

Ehi

Respectfully, I dont think you are understanding and we are going round and round in circles

REASON I POSTED ON HERE ( MSE Forums )

1. I was told there is a Martin Lewis template for missold finance and I could also ask on here. Yet no one is talking about that. I found a few and using the guideliness which fit my narrative and tryng to align my grieviences with that, rather than endless explaining 
 
I can explain from now to kingdom come, and somethings will not still be clear, such is life. We all have examples. What I am focused on AND I REPEAT FOCUSED ON.

2. My cousin ( a solicitor) and I asked me some basic questions, which fall short of the law. e.g. similar to these https://claimformycar.com/mis-sold-car-finance-signs/ and https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/car-finance or https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mis-sold-car-finance/

and if it falls short, then lodge a complaint, again is not the vibe I am getting on here



MOVING FORWARD: Two closing points

1. I have a company letterhead print out, confirming a pre-order and timelines from the company MD and 2 of his complimentary cards. For a brand new family SUV yet to be released. Addressed to me with dates on them and a number of email exchanges confirming this

2. I have a set of emails, less than 2 hours after the pre- sales order print out, saying CONGRATS as you are accepted for our finance

... and they would offer me their cheapest car in their forecourt. Which I gladly declined saying it was not my taste. Then a 30mins follow up response saying ITS A TEMPORARY ARRANGEMENT pending you get option 1 above

Now the dealership is denying they ever knew anything about option 1 above or where I got such a letterhead from ? They further denying I ever asked for a brand new car. I asked their HQ, to show the date and time I asked for a 2nd hand car and to this day, they never replied. I then asked to report to management, then MD, then their global HQ and repeatedly never once responded



I could go on and on. But, Again, respectfully, I dont think this is rocket science.


Kindly lets put things to rest. I will continue researching the law and align my complaints towards that and submit on monday