Missold car finance, lying and bullying by car dealership

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

Hoenir said:

And was this ever confirmed into an official order. 

Aylesbury_Duck said:

In the absence of any answer to this question, despite it having been asked more than once, I have assumed the same as Grumpy_Chap, that OP hasn't paid any fee or made any official pre-order for the car they wanted.  Otherwise it would feature as a strong support to OP's argument.

I believe my very first post, asnwered your questions

@Ehi said:

Despite the mass advertizing. I was told it was lead time was 13months and I should not fall victim to scam dealerships and the MD printed out the official TIME SHEET for me with their letterhead and weeks later gave me a test drive car, which I loved and asked to order.

He said I cant order due to backlog and can only pre-order. Which I then did.

.....
3. I was advised by the shortlisted dealership to place an pre-order ( which I did) and got a confirmation email and printed out pre-order receipt ( with my new vehicle spec)
4. I was told, they could offer me cheaper finance, but first and foremost, I need to pick a 2nd hand car in their forecourt ( and assured me, its a preliminary check that wont affect my credit history as no hard search would be done, until I was offered finance) which I said go ahead
5. I was emailed later on, that I had been accepted and if I wanted the 2nd hand car, I need to come down and they would waive my pre-order payment (for the brand new car) if I took the 2nd hand car
....
9. Seven Months down the line, they asked me to bring the car in for a service and pay and admitted to mistakes, (Both the dealership and HQ admitted mistakes) they waived half of the service charge and it was at that point, I was told, I never pre-ordered a brand new car as I only came in to inquire about a 2nd hand car, nothing more and the MD to this day, ( Who was patient and extremely friendly initially) has refused to speak to me. I showed them the printed letter head of the brand new car and they denied it and said, I went independently and printed that out own my own. Every email, letterhead etc with their corporate name was either denied or ignored
10. Despite surmounting evidence, they said they do not know what I am talking about. As I went online to pre-order a car and spec it. Iroonically the pre-order form, has their name on the letterheaded paper and print out date.

Rather than being defensive, could you answer the question directly and clearly?

@Hoenir
@Aylesbury_Duck
@okell
and I, plus possibly others, all remain unclear as to whether the pre-order fee was ever actually paid.
I have set out my understanding, including the part of the original post, that is not wholly clear just a couple of posts upthread.

All of the contributors to this thread are experienced, knowledgeable, intelligent, helpful regular members of the forum team.
You have succeeded in leaving us all unclear as to the details of the situation which impacts the quality of the responses given.
You choose to only like the comments that are favourable and sympathetic / agreeable with your stance.

This is all really very important as, if the pre-order was actually placed and the fee paid, then the advice I have given will be different.

Let us assume the pre-order fee was paid and the pre-order should have been processed (but was not).  Where is that pre-order fee now?  Has it been refunded?  It is not an inconsiderate amount at £1k (as you advised) so you must know whether it was paid, not paid, refunded etc.

Ehi

Grumpy_chap said:

My take on that (as a whole) is that the Dealer sent the OP the details of the pre-order and required the fee to be paid but the fee was never paid so the pre-order was never processed.

It is actually quite an important piece in the whole scenario and might well change some of the comments and advice.

Quite accurate, but its like this

I was told, that you cannot order a vehicle that has not been produced.  Neither can we quote finance for you, on such a vehicle. However a printed receipt, with the company letterhead, my name, address and chosen vehicle, optional extras, colour (interior and exterior) etc was printed out and given to me, which I have the original to this day

So I asked, why the mass advertizing, reviews and youtube channels, advertizing a car that is not on sale ??? It sounded strange to me.

So I was told, if I pre-order, it would be in their system, then 2 months before my car is gone into production, I would be notified and at this point, no refund would be given for the £1,000 deposit. 

Then I was promised, if I take the 2nd hand car, I would not need to pay a deposit, rather, I would simply be notified. Then 6/7 months later when they called me for a service and admitted to errors, it was at that point, I was told, nothing was coming, so I contacted HQ and even a year later, I was told by HQ, NOTHING WAS BEING PRODUCED.

So all along it was a scam

Nearlyold

Just checked the Zuto site on Auto Trader and is says

Zuto can help if you’re looking to finance a used vehicle. We do not offer finance for brand new vehicles. Some of our lending panel also set requirements on the car ’s age and mileage. As a general rule, you’re best looking for a vehicle that is less than 10 years old and with under 100,000 miles on the clock. If you wish to buy a car that doesn’t fit this general criteria, Zuto may still be able to help, just give Zuto a call.

Not sure if this was the case when the OP was looking at buying the New( but not yet unavailable) SUV but if it was I suspect the OP merely had a finance illustration from the Zuto website rather than any form of formal finance offer from them.

It of course could be they do offer new car finance and the statement I found is out of date.

Ehi

@Grumpy_chap

Rather than being defensive, could you answer the question directly and clearly?

I am not being defensive, I have repeatedly answered in my first post and numerous post and again in my last post No, no and no

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

Grumpy_chap said:

My take on that (as a whole) is that the Dealer sent the OP the details of the pre-order and required the fee to be paid but the fee was never paid so the pre-order was never processed.

It is actually quite an important piece in the whole scenario and might well change some of the comments and advice.

Quite accurate, but its like this

I was told, that you cannot order a vehicle that has not been produced.  Neither can we quote finance for you, on such a vehicle. However a printed receipt, with the company letterhead, my name, address and chosen vehicle, optional extras, colour (interior and exterior) etc was printed out and given to me, which I have the original to this day

So I asked, why the mass advertizing, reviews and youtube channels, advertizing a car that is not on sale ??? It sounded strange to me.

So I was told, if I pre-order, it would be in their system, then 2 months before my car is gone into production, I would be notified and at this point, no refund would be given for the £1,000 deposit. 

Then I was promised, if I take the 2nd hand car, I would not need to pay a deposit, rather, I would simply be notified. Then 6/7 months later when they called me for a service and admitted to errors, it was at that point, I was told, nothing was coming, so I contacted HQ and even a year later, I was told by HQ, NOTHING WAS BEING PRODUCED.

So all along it was a scam

That contravenes what you said in your first post.

Is the "receipt" a receipt or simply a "vehicle specification sheet"?  If a "receipt", what is it a receipt for?

Does the paperwork for the 2nd hand car - the official order paperwork, which you will have signed - include the pre-order line (even at zero value) for the brand new SUV?  If it does not, then the pre-order was never placed.  You may have verbally discussed a pre-order, but it seems to have never made it to the contract paperwork.




I am going to suggest that this is a vehicle such as the Toyota BZ4X which, last summer (2023) was on around 12-months pre-order lead time.  I know because I looked at one.  My Brother pre-ordered one.  By January this year (when the OP seems to have made the first enquiry) the pre-order time had come down to about 4 months and the first vehicles came on the road from around April.  That would tie in with some Dealers advertising the car as 4 months while the local Dealer stated a year or so.  Then the used hatchback being a Lexus UX or similar.  There is also a Lexus-equivalent to the BZ4X which had the similar pre-order lead in times, but following on a bit of a lag from the Toyota.

Other manufacturers (BMW) also had similar new model launches over the period and would have had similarly priced premium second hand 7yo hatchbacks - particularly if the OP was after an EV...

Ehi

Grumpy_chap said:

I am going to suggest that this is a vehicle such as the Toyota BZ4X which, last summer (2023) was on around 12-months pre-order lead time.  I know because I looked at one.  My Brother pre-ordered one.  By January this year (when the OP seems to have made the first enquiry) the pre-order time had come down to about 4 months and the first vehicles came on the road from around April.  That would tie in with some Dealers advertising the car as 4 months while the local Dealer stated a year or so.  Then the used hatchback being a Lexus UX or similar.  There is also a Lexus-equivalent to the BZ4X which had the similar pre-order lead in times, but following on a bit of a lag from the Toyota.

Other manufacturers (BMW) also had similar new model launches over the period and would have had similarly priced premium second hand 7yo hatchbacks - particularly if the OP was after an EV...

haha ha 

Dont worry, when my complaint is over ( in a couple of months ) I would definitely come back and thank everyone. But playing detective, wont get you any favours. As you missed a crucial point

@Ehi said:
2. I was told ( by the dealership) and all other 5 dealerships I went to locally, there is no brand new car, due to backlog of covid and war in ukraine

Ayr_Rage

I cannot see any mis-selling of finance, you willingly entered into the agreement for the interim car.

As for the the pre-order, interim car and servicing issues you have a valid complaint with the dealer.

How was the pre-order payment waived, where is that money?

Aylesbury_Duck

Ehi said:

Grumpy_chap said:

My take on that (as a whole) is that the Dealer sent the OP the details of the pre-order and required the fee to be paid but the fee was never paid so the pre-order was never processed.

It is actually quite an important piece in the whole scenario and might well change some of the comments and advice.

Quite accurate, but its like this

I was told, that you cannot order a vehicle that has not been produced.  Neither can we quote finance for you, on such a vehicle. However a printed receipt, with the company letterhead, my name, address and chosen vehicle, optional extras, colour (interior and exterior) etc was printed out and given to me, which I have the original to this day

So I asked, why the mass advertizing, reviews and youtube channels, advertizing a car that is not on sale ??? It sounded strange to me.

So I was told, if I pre-order, it would be in their system, then 2 months before my car is gone into production, I would be notified and at this point, no refund would be given for the £1,000 deposit. 

Then I was promised, if I take the 2nd hand car, I would not need to pay a deposit, rather, I would simply be notified. Then 6/7 months later when they called me for a service and admitted to errors, it was at that point, I was told, nothing was coming, so I contacted HQ and even a year later, I was told by HQ, NOTHING WAS BEING PRODUCED.

So all along it was a scam

I'm not sure how you prove it was an always-intended scam.  You clearly haven't pre-ordered or paid a deposit for the new car, all you have is a personalised illustration of what a particular specification of the new car would cost.  I could get 10 of them tomorrow by visiting a few dealerships, it wouldn't signify any commitment on their part.

You'll need to somehow provide reasonable evidence that you were missold the finance on the second-hand car as some sort of pseudo-deposit on the SUV.  I'm not convinced you have enough because there isn't a connection between the two beyond what you say was a verbal agreement.  You needed a car at the time, and you bought one.  You would have needed to buy one in any case, so I can't see how you're worse off than had you walked down the road to another dealer and bought one there.

Aylesbury_Duck

Ehi said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am going to suggest that this is a vehicle such as the Toyota BZ4X which, last summer (2023) was on around 12-months pre-order lead time.  I know because I looked at one.  My Brother pre-ordered one.  By January this year (when the OP seems to have made the first enquiry) the pre-order time had come down to about 4 months and the first vehicles came on the road from around April.  That would tie in with some Dealers advertising the car as 4 months while the local Dealer stated a year or so.  Then the used hatchback being a Lexus UX or similar.  There is also a Lexus-equivalent to the BZ4X which had the similar pre-order lead in times, but following on a bit of a lag from the Toyota.

Other manufacturers (BMW) also had similar new model launches over the period and would have had similarly priced premium second hand 7yo hatchbacks - particularly if the OP was after an EV...

haha ha 

Dont worry, when my complaint is over ( in a couple of months ) I would definitely come back and thank everyone. But playing detective, wont get you any favours. As you missed a crucial point

@Ehi said:
2. I was told ( by the dealership) and all other 5 dealerships I went to locally, there is no brand new car, due to backlog of covid and war in ukraine

People wouldn't need to play detective if you were a bit clearer with your information.  And why does Grumpy_Chap need favours from you?  It's you that needs help, remember?  No one else here is stuck with a finance deal on a car they didn't want.  They're all participating in the discussion voluntarily in the hope that you either improve your argument or realise you don't have one.

Grumpy_chap

Ehi said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Dont worry, when my complaint is over ( in a couple of months ) I would definitely come back and thank everyone. But playing detective, wont get you any favours. As you missed a crucial point

@Ehi said:
2. I was told ( by the dealership) and all other 5 dealerships I went to locally, there is no brand new car, due to backlog of covid and war in ukraine

Not really - I have queried that comment about COVID and Ukraine impacts on the supply chain and whether the timeline was 7 months ago as indicated in your opening post, but you failed to clarify:

Grumpy_chap said:

I think it might be helpful if the OP can clarify when the whole saga started and where the interim second hand car is now?

I had initially read that the OP had the interim car for around 7 months until now, so the whole process would have commenced at the beginning of this year (2024), but reading the post again, I wonder whether the timeline is more protracted?

Ehi said:

I saw mass advertizing of a car on youtube and adverts sent to my phone. So (having never owned a brand new car) I went to a car dealership and asked for the car. 

I was told it was lead time was 13months 

2. I was told ( by the dealership) and all other 5 dealerships I went to locally, there is no brand new car, due to backlog of covid and war in ukraine

9. Seven Months down the line, they asked me to bring the car in for a service and pay

Now the Financial Ombudsman has accepted my case and I am drafting my complaint which basically has 

The extensive supply-chain delays resulting from Covid and Ukraine were largely resolved some time before 2024.  That does not mean there are no cars still with a long lead time, just not that the reason given is necessarily valid.

The OP has now exhausted the Dealer's / Finance Company's compliant processes and had the case accepted by the Ombudsman.  How quickly does the Ombudsman take to process a complaint?

Is the whole timeline here a couple of years rather than 7 months or so?
If the timeline is longer and the OP still has the interim second hand car, that could certainly influence the likely remedy - particularly any deduction for beneficial use.

Can you set out the timelines clearly please?