Advice on side access

Rommie2021

I couldn’t find a property/legal subcategory, so apologies if I’ve put this in the wrong place. 

We recently moved in to a semi detached property that has a path down the side from our large driveway to a gate into our back garden. There is another semi on the other side of that path, which has a gate on to our side path, which gives side access to their garden. We both have additional back gates at the bottom of our gardens which lead on to open space. 

The entirety of the side path is within our plot boundary and the previous owners ticked ‘no’ to the question about anyone having right of access across our plot or shared access - I can’t remember how the question was worded but they’ve ticked no. Having seen the side gate I asked the solicitor to check and she said there is definitely no right of access. 

The neighbour is a man about my dad’s age who has lived here for decades. We don’t want to fall out with him as we love living here. But… he has a family member who visits and rides his bike down our driveway and down the side path to put his bike in the owner’s garden. We have a video doorbell and he rides down our driveway, right past our cars, coming at such speed that he has skidded on the driveway a couple of times. 

I spoke to him yesterday as I happened to be at the front and he was riding his bike past the cars. I asked if he could please not ride past the cars because I was worried about them being scratched, and if he could please ride up and down his relative’s drive rather than ours (there is a space where he can step through and walk his bike to the side path if he really must come on our property). His response was to say he would ride across the grass then (also ours!), to which I said you could ride on your own relative’s drive instead. I thought I was polite - I’m not a rude/confrontational person (my knees were shaking after just that one ten second conversation!)

Neighbour has knocked on the door today, initially to tell me off for speaking to his relative and not to him, and for being rude. I said I just happened to be out there at the same time so mentioned it to him, and that the neighbour was welcome to look at the conversation recorded by the doorbell as I hadn’t been rude. This seemed to take the wind out of his sails a little. He went on to say that he ‘must have access’ and his relative ‘must have access to lock his bike in the back garden’, and that he was having some work done soon for which he ‘must have access’ and we would need to move our cars. I said he would need to let us know when this would be. He said of course. 

I said my understanding is that the whole side path is within our plot and that the previous owners and our solicitor had confirmed that there is no right of access. He said that he doesn’t think this is the case and he ‘must have access’. 

Our own gate in to the garden is in poor repair and we don’t like the fact that someone could potentially get unseen down the side path. It has been in our long term plan to get a new gate and bring it further forward, level with the front of the house. However, this would block access to neighbour’s side gate. We would of course give him access for maintenance if requested (although he does have an alternative). He cannot claim he needs access in an emergency as we both have second back gates on to open space. So if he needed to get out in an emergency, he could. 

After that massive spiel… 

If we wanted to move our gate and make the side access more secure, could neighbour stop us? 

Can neighbour just tell us he is having work done, that we need to move our cars and that we won’t have access to part of our plot for a period of time? What if driveway, car or house are damaged? 

If this gets problematic, do we have any comeback on the previous owners for potential dishonesty on the property information form? 

Thank you 

FreeBear

Consult your neighbour's deeds (available from https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry for a small fee). If it says nothing about access over your land, and neither does your deeds, put the new gate up. But it will probably destroy relations...
He might be able to claim prescriptive easement easement if he has been able (and used) the path for 20 or more years. Your solicitor should be able to advise if he goes down this route.

ThisIsWeird

Hi Rommie.

As FreeBear says, check your neighbour's deeds too - it is possible for it to be mentioned on only one set of deeds!

From what you describe, tho', I reckon it would be unlikely, since they have their own potential route down there - it wouldn't make sense for an additional RoW to exist for them across your land.

But - CHECK!

Next thing, download and store all the conversations you have recorded. Keep them secure, and don't share them with anyone - unless authorised (ie, this becomes a legal issue). Begin a log of events, dated and timed, and refer to the recordings where relevant.

Make sure that all future conversations are also recorded. If necessary, have your phone set to record whenever you think you'll be having a 'conversation'.

And, right now, before bed, check your house insurance to see if it has Legal Protection included.

So, what to do? Check their deeds. Assuming there's no mention of a RoW over any of your land, and that their 'red' boundary line only goes around their property and doesn't overlap yours with any other colour or reference, and that your deeds are ditto, then print out a copy of each of these deeds plans.

If you have LegProt, then call them up for guidance on how to approach this - this is free, and they are (supposedly) the pros.

But, in general, I'd be ready and armed with these maps, should you need to have a further conversation. If you do, then run through your head beforehand what you will say, and I'd suggest; kiss, and ask questions.

So, instead of telling him things like, "This map shows that it's ours...", you make it more like, "Can you see the red outline of our property? Yes? And that's the boundary of my land - yes? And, see - there's the red boundary line around your property - yes? See where the two red lines meet between us, that's the boundary between us, and I think you can see that it runs just along here, down there, between our sheds/garden/garages/whatevs (point to the ground and all these features as you say this...) - what do you think?"

Like that, step by painful step.

Calm...friendly...smiley...matter-of-fact...but insistent.

If he doesn't fully acknowledge - ie nod, agree, 'yeah' - each point you are making, then ask it again. If he starts to ramble about "I need access...it's always been like this..." or anything else, just stare at him until he stops, and literally start again at the previous point; "You see this ref boundary line, yes...". Just as if you are talking to a very young child who is struggling with sums.
Don't be side-stepped. Stick to the actual points.

For example, if he says, "I need to be able to go down this path!", the temptation will be to react to that point, and say things like he can go down his own! Instead, keep it on the discernible facts as shown on the maps - you simply want - need - him to acknowledge where the boundary between you lies, and then that there's nothing on either side to suggest an 'extra' pathway that either of you can use! So, bring it repeatedly back to this boundary.

Then it's, "Is there anything in your deeds that suggests you have a path down my side of this boundary line?" Again, I suspect this will take a few attempts whilst he goes on about what he 'needs' and has 'always done', but you need to repeat the point, in the form of that question, until he admits 'no'. "Uh-huh! But is there anything in your deeds to show...", or, "Can you point to your deeds where it suggests that you can...". 

Don't tell him - ask him. As soon as he agrees, 'yes' to any of your points, he should be defused from arguing at least that point again. If you, instead, tell him stuff, he will 'argue', and keep doing so! Don't be sidelined! Stop, wait, repeat!

And make damned sure all of this is recorded.

That leaves the potential issue of 'prescriptive easement', which I suspect just won't be an issue at all, mainly due to the fact that the neighbour does not require access to this route - he ain't landlocked - so was only using is as it was a wee bitty easier, but also because you were allowing him to do this, as was the previous owner. To gain a prescriptive easement, the guy would have to provide evidence of a continuous, uninterupted and unhindered access, done without the owner's permission, and (I think) knowledge - that's a very tall order. Anyhoo, don't bring this up. If he does, then it's, "Don't be silly - I LET you use it, but now I need to sort my boundary properly."

You remain smiley and calm at all times, but insistent. Don't argue, don't discuss, don't justify - other than, 'This is what the deeds say. These are the facts. I can no more walk across your garden than you can mine.'
Remind yourself that he is wrong, and you are right. Remind yourself that this issue cannot continue as it is. Remind yourself that if he wants to fall out with you, that's his call, and that there is nothing you can do about it if he does. You be friendly and normal.
And record it... 

Amend all of the above according to what you are comfortable with, but I hope you understand the gist of what I am saying? Kiss. Facts. Question.
Your LP might suggest something else - a letter, for example - and it's probably important to follow their advice since they will ultimately be looking out for you, but the above is what I suggest should you hopefully have a friendly chat.

Rommie2021

Both really helpful replies, thank you! 

I’ve downloaded his deeds - he’s been there since 2001. His red boundary comes up to bt does not cross my red boundary. 

I’ve also checked our home insurance and for some reason we don’t have legal protection on the current policy - we did last year and Admiral have form for quietly changing things at renewal so I’ve contacted them to ask about putting it on. 

Thank you again. I will update! 

Grenage

Legal cover won't include pre-existing issues, which this will be.

ThisIsWeird

Grenage said:

Legal cover won't include pre-existing issues, which this will be.

As a rule, you are right. What they may possibly do, tho', is still offer guidance. Ie, they might advise you what to do, but won't get involved. And def worth adding for any future issues...

I don't fully understand what your respective layouts are from your description, Rommie, and a sketch would really help us here. But I think it's worth planning to have your boundary defined and physically separated. 

It would be ideal - neighbourly - to have a conversation about the situation first, but have your ducks lined up beforehand. Know what you are going to say, and how you'll say it - remember, Q's

And, I'd start getting quotes for the work. Keep all fences on your side of the boundary line, with the backs of the posts touching the 'line'. Then it's all yours.

Your neighbour is not reasonable, although he does seem to accept carefully-delivered, unimpeachable facts. You need to take control of this. It is unacceptable that he comes on to your land when he feels like. Or should I say, it's unacceptable for him to think he's doing nothing wrong when he does this, that he has the right. He does not.

GDB2222

Can I just check @Rommie2021, are you looking to pick a fight, or do you want to get on with your neighbour?  

Rommie2021

Ok I have attempted an annotated plot plan! Our house is obviously the one in the red boundary. I’ve marked neighbour with an X. I’ve put a red circle around the side path that is the subject of the issue. Our side gate is currently level with the back of the house. Ideally we’d move it forward to level with the front of the house, but that would block access to the side gate the neighbour has had for a number of years, apparently (marked green).  I’ve also marked our back gates in yellow. Behind our houses is a kind of nature area/ open space. It does not have vehicle access easily, but it would be a viable escape route if needed. 

I want to get on with him, because essentially I’m a big ball of anxiousness that doesn’t like to upset anyone, and we want to love living here, but I don’t want his relative riding his bike down the side of my car and I don’t want to be told that I have to move my cars off my own drive because neighbour wants to have work done and tells me he ‘must have access’ - surely he should be asking my permission! 

The other option is to try and ignore it until such time as the property is changing hands and move our gate and block the neighbouring one at that point?

 

I’m still really frustrated that the sellers were not entirely truthful about this on the property information form!

Rommie2021

Attached..

BarelySentientAI

That's quite an odd plan - with the boundary being right up against the neighbour's wall at the front but a little kink behind your house so that in the gardens the boundary splits the gap between the houses equally.  Does the fence follow the boundary like that?

It's made the only access to the neighbour's garden from the front to be through your boundary.  That was always going to cause trouble.

GDB2222

“ I want to get on with him, because essentially I’m a big ball of anxiousness that doesn’t like to upset anyone, and we want to love living here, but I don’t want his relative riding his bike down the side of my car and I don’t want to be told that I have to move my cars off my own drive because neighbour wants to have work done and tells me he ‘must have access’ - surely he should be asking my permission! ”

I expect the bike issue can be resolved without going to war!  Just use common sense. 

 The neighbour may have acquired a right of way over your land already, through usage or otherwise.  He obviously thinks that he has. 

In any case, the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 may well give him a right for his builders to use your side passage.

You may not like the way that you were spoken to, but it does sound like you are contemplating ruinously expensive legal action over a minor snub. If you block his access to his back garden, you leave him no option but to sue you. You make your house unsaleable, and in similar cases the legal costs have come to £100,000s for each side. Even if you win, you will only recover 70% or so of your costs. It would be far cheaper to scratch the cars yourself, so you don’t worry about their paintwork.  

Just getting the legal advice you want could cost thousands. Just give it a day or two to calm down, and then have another think about how best to handle this.