Advice on side access

user1977

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

RAS said:

That article make it clear that you cannot acquire rights due to long usage if the activity has been done with the landowner's consent.

Looks as if the previous owner consented. So the neighbour would have to prove the opposite to have any chance of using this strategy.

What is consent in a situation like this? I would guess it would be more than just the landowner not objecting. 

Consent would be something more explicit, not merely a lack of objection (indeed an actual objection would stop the clock).

The onus would surely be on the claimant - the neighbour - to provide pretty decent proof (on the balance of probabilities?) that they used this alleyway knowing it was without the owner's permission? 
Surely a tough call? 

Why tough? It would be even tougher for the OP to rebut such a claim, if they've only moved in recently, and the access "right" has been regularly exercised since (at least) then.

Are you suggesting that anyone in the neighbour's position only has to claim so, and the onus then falls on the owner to find evidence to rebut? If so, that is surely unfair.
In this case, the neighbour would simply have to claim that they used this path regularly and without interruption for 20+ years, with the owner being ignorant that they had no right to? Blimey. They don't have to evidence this in any way?

Where did I say they didn't have to evidence it?

You didn't, but you questioned whether it would be a tough call to make.
So, how would they evidence it? In a non-tough way?

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

RAS said:

That article make it clear that you cannot acquire rights due to long usage if the activity has been done with the landowner's consent.

Looks as if the previous owner consented. So the neighbour would have to prove the opposite to have any chance of using this strategy.

What is consent in a situation like this? I would guess it would be more than just the landowner not objecting. 

Consent would be something more explicit, not merely a lack of objection (indeed an actual objection would stop the clock).

The onus would surely be on the claimant - the neighbour - to provide pretty decent proof (on the balance of probabilities?) that they used this alleyway knowing it was without the owner's permission? 
Surely a tough call? 

Why tough? It would be even tougher for the OP to rebut such a claim, if they've only moved in recently, and the access "right" has been regularly exercised since (at least) then.

Are you suggesting that anyone in the neighbour's position only has to claim so, and the onus then falls on the owner to find evidence to rebut? If so, that is surely unfair.
In this case, the neighbour would simply have to claim that they used this path regularly and without interruption for 20+ years, with the owner being ignorant that they had no right to? Blimey. They don't have to evidence this in any way?

Where did I say they didn't have to evidence it?

You didn't, but you questioned whether it would be a tough call to make.
So, how would they evidence it? In a non-tough way?

The usual starter would be their own statements about the historic use of the property, and/or affidavits from others with knowledge about it.

thegreenone

ThisIsWeird said:

thegreenone said:

@Rommie2021 What do the rear gates (yellow) open onto?

"Behind our houses is a kind of nature area/ open space." Each party has their own gate through to there. Yes, that means the neighbour's garden is not landlocked.

Apologies, I missed that.

OP, could Son bring his bike in through the rear gate?  I appreciate builders will not be able to use that gate.

ThisIsWeird

thegreenone said:

ThisIsWeird said:

thegreenone said:

@Rommie2021 What do the rear gates (yellow) open onto?

"Behind our houses is a kind of nature area/ open space." Each party has their own gate through to there. Yes, that means the neighbour's garden is not landlocked.

Apologies, I missed that.
OP, could Son bring his bike in through the rear gate?  I appreciate builders will not be able to use that gate.

I think the main issue here is whether the neighbour has a right to use that pathway at will. They currently seem to think they have, and are not very considerate about doing so.

Rommie has made it clear he(?) is happy to allow them to use the access, but not when they are being thoughtless and inconsiderate about it. And I think that is fair enough.

If the neighbour's son had been stepping off his bike and wheeling it carefully past Rommie's parked car, with a jaunty "Hi Rom!", then this situation probably wouldn't have arisen.

I personally hope that there is nothing in the neighbour's deeds to indicate a RoW (there's now't in Rommie's), and that the previous owner will confirm that they only had access with their permission. The neighbour would then have to swallow a giant slice of humble, and completely change their attitude - and behaviour.

With Rommie having the right to block off the access at any time, he will now be able to settle down in his new house, and have the most peaceful of lives.

"Oi! Neighb! SLIPPERS!"

propertyrental

Tea and cake.

And a copy of both sets of deeds.....

Rommie2021

Apologies - we've been away. I did say there may be a delay! 

Things are calmer; I even got a cheery wave from the neighbour the other day. His son has at least stopped riding his bike up and down our driveway - he hops across on it to his dad's drive and cycles off that way. This does mean he's going across a corner of our front grass, but we think there is some subtle planting we can do there so that he can't muck up the grass.  

There is nothing in his deeds about a right of way. 

I am much more certain about how to phrase my responses when his building work comes around and he comes to tell us he must have access and we must move our cars. Thank you. Ultimately I'm a very stressed teacher (the timing of the original conversations may have been influenced by this) and I just want a quiet life!