CPM ANPR PCN - Leaseholder with exclusive use of space

Mullerice

Grizebeck said:

Well you know what needs to be done 
David from small claims could draw up the particulars pretty quickly I would say. No reason you can't have an application logged with your local county court within the next week /10 days 

I'll get onto David today then! 

Half_way said:

If I was in that situation I would be letter dropping all residents telling then not to buy any permits and alerting them to the scam.
UKPC Vs Davey springs to mind. 

As for the cameras, do you have the right to pass and re pass without let or hindrance over the access roads to your property?  In other words do you have the right to access your parking space/property?

 If so then any CCTV/ANPR may well breach that and you could be within your rights to disable them as long as you do not damage them.
You could put a bag over them, or if they have an adjustment screw/attachment point them slightly towards the sky (less easy to spot than than a bin bag) just make sure that you do it safely, and to be less obvious put on  a hi Vis jacket so you look like a worker

See above post at the only entrance to the parking, the camera is just above that van. There is no way to access my space without passing the camera. The camera mounting looks fixed, but a bag over the top could be a good shout. Someone did that last week but it was removed... 

The_Slithy_Tove said:

Mullerice said:

The management company have recently had CPM install ANPR cameras and demand that we pay CPM for e-permits which last 12 months and are limited to 3 cars at a time. 

I’m absolutely not happy about paying CPM for permits, or risking getting caught out if I forget to register one of my visitors on their system. 

Along with everything else, this really does take the biscuit: expecting (demanding?) you pay for the privilege of the inconvenience.

That may work to your advantage. Payment implies some kind of agreement/contract with CPM. If you don't pay, you can't possibly be agreeing to anything they want to impose. That and the fact that any signage is moot - no signage can make you an offer to park on a demised space to which you already have the right to park.

Oh it certainly does take the biscuit! Here's some of the correspondance from the MC: 

"[Previously] parking control was via warden patrols and residents were required to display a paper permit at a cost of £10.00 per permit but these were often lost when transferring between vehicles/sun damaged so replacements were required, residents also had the opportunity to purchase single use resident permits."

"Under a single permit, it is possible to register up to 5 vehicles which can be added/swapped instantly [at a cost of £10 per time] via the Sippi App under manage vehicles, this allows a family/friend/contractor could park their car in the bay if you were away from the property. 

It is correct that under the terms of the lease, you have exclusive right to park in the allocated bay however the landlord and managing agent have a duty under the lease to enforce the covenants outlined within the lease and this includes ensuring those with allocated bays have free access to use them."

Following from me rejecting their scheme, they sent this including a screenshot of an unrelated lease - the wording / terms / content of the below are nowhere to be seen in my lease. The terms Management Company and Estate Regulations are not mentioned in my lease

"As mentioned in my email on 5th July 2024, it is correct that under the terms of your lease, you have exclusive right to park in the allocated bay however the landlord and managing agent have a duty under the lease to enforce the covenants outlined within the lease and this includes ensuring those with allocated bays have free access to use them.

As per schedule 7 clause 10 (below) the management company have the authority to make new or vary existing estate regulations which would apply to the entire development.

As leaseholder, your right to exclusive use is not impacted, an additional estate regulation has simply been applied. Upon registration to your Sippi permit you will have the ability to add/remove vehicles instantly to allow visitors the right to use your bay.

Once you have registered for your permit, please provide me with details of any PCN’s received since enforcement become active and I will speak with our account manager to have these cancelled."

I'm unsure how my right to exclusive use is not impacted, when to continue to use the space I am required to allow CPM to sublet it to me at a charge of £10 per vehicle... 

I'd love to take both CPM and the MA to court over this for harassment, trespass, GDPR and any other reasons that are appropriate. It really is a joke that they think this is an appropriate way to deal with this - not once have they suggested that residents simply install a folding bollard to defend their spaces from unwanted vehicles... Oh no - that would be too easy! 

1505grandad

"I'd love to take both CPM and the MA to court over this for harassment, trespass, GDPR and any other reasons that are appropriate."

Is Equality Act 2010 relevant?  -  wonder if it is appropriate for any other residents.

Mullerice

1505grandad said:

"I'd love to take both CPM and the MA to court over this for harassment, trespass, GDPR and any other reasons that are appropriate."

Is Equality Act 2010 relevant?  -  wonder if it is appropriate for any other residents.

Potentially other residents have characteristics, but I’m not sure you could argue this was done to single them out 

Half_way

You need to hit then with the fact that imposing an unregulated private parking company is completely un reasonable

h2g2

And charging for a space you already own is even more unreasonable, however its done.

saajan_12

Mullerice said:

Oh it certainly does take the biscuit! Here's some of the correspondance from the MC: 

"[Previously] parking control was via warden patrols and residents were required to display a paper permit at a cost of £10.00 per permit but these were often lost when transferring between vehicles/sun damaged so replacements were required, residents also had the opportunity to purchase single use resident permits."

"Under a single permit, it is possible to register up to 5 vehicles which can be added/swapped instantly [at a cost of £10 per time] via the Sippi App under manage vehicles, this allows a family/friend/contractor could park their car in the bay if you were away from the property. 

It is correct that under the terms of the lease, you have exclusive right to park in the allocated bay however the landlord and managing agent have a duty under the lease to enforce the covenants outlined within the lease and this includes ensuring those with allocated bays have free access to use them." 

Why dont they employ a doorman to open your flat door for you and your dinner guests, at a cost of £10 for each different person he lets in. Dinner party.. budget in the door opening bill. Lots of nighttime visitors.. double charge.  Yes its your flat but after all they have to make sure everyone is ID'd. Came home drunk and lost your wallet containing the ID.. add a zero now its £100.  
/s

Coupon-mad

I agree that this might be one that David can do (Small Claims Advisor Ltd). Hope so.

Would you be up for publicity? One of my high level contacts might be interested in publicising this scam foisted on your estate and rattling Will Hurley's cage too. Interested?

fisherjim

.......this includes ensuring those with allocated bays have free access to use them.

Which to me means they cannot charge those with allocated bays any fees for using them!

Mullerice

Coupon-mad said:

I agree that this might be one that David can do (Small Claims Advisor Ltd). Hope so.

Would you be up for publicity? One of my high level contacts might be interested in publicising this scam foisted on your estate and rattling Will Hurley's cage too. Interested?

h2g2 said:

And charging for a space you already own is even more unreasonable, however its done.

Half_way said:

You need to hit then with the fact that imposing an unregulated private parking company is completely un reasonable

Oh don’t worry I have, but because allegedly train commuters park here (no issues recently so not sure where they decided that), then this ANPR system is the only way to ensure that I have the quiet enjoyment of my space (even though you can just cover the number plates and stealth through for free parking)

saajan_12 said:

 

Why dont they employ a doorman to open your flat door for you and your dinner guests, at a cost of £10 for each different person he lets in. Dinner party.. budget in the door opening bill. Lots of nighttime visitors.. double charge.  Yes it’s your flat but after all they have to make sure everyone is ID'd. Came home drunk and lost your wallet containing the ID.. add a zero now it’s £100.  
/s

Funny you say that - the lease has provisions that we can’t dry our washing outside. So in theory by the same logic, CPM could put up signs saying “no washing to be dried outside. Breach of this term means the housewife / househusband agrees to pay £100” haha 

Mullerice

Coupon-mad said:

I agree that this might be one that David can do (Small Claims Advisor Ltd). Hope so.

Would you be up for publicity? One of my high level contacts might be interested in publicising this scam foisted on your estate and rattling Will Hurley's cage too. Interested?

So I was in contact earlier and he said 

“In order to try and prevent the parking scheme from being implemented, you would need to apply to the High Court for a Prohibitory Injunction, against First Port.

 

This is potentially a complex and expensive procedure, which falls outside of the remit of small claims track cases. As such, it would be outside the scope of my services, and you would need to instruct a firm of solicitors specialising in such matters.”

I’d definitely be interested in publicity. I think it’s abhorrent that management companies think that they can turn residential parking lots into expensive public pay and display car parks, whilst simultaneously harassing leaseholders who do not want to engage with unknown third party parking companies. 

How can it be industry standard that I buy a leasehold property for almost £500,000 which includes the exclusive use of a parking space for 125 years, then some company who I pay a service charge to organise cleaning and hedge trimming allows a third party to turn my allocated bay into a car park that’s free if you have one of their “permits” or £100 a day to the general public? 

Ideally I’d love to set a general legal precedent that management companies must engage in contracts with the individual leaseholders to allow “parking control” companies to operate a for-profit business from resident parking bays, and potentially even start up a parking company where residents are the ones snapping pictures of cars in their bays only, which can then be chased via PCNs and the revenue split with the resident.