Landis GYR+ E470 Type 5394

MeteredOut

Chris_b2z said:

Bearing in mind when this happened, did you have indoor / outdoor Christmas lighting in use at the time? I'm not suggesting that it would explain the high usage but it could be a contributing factor.

It may also be worth reposting this case on the e.on next Community Forum with all the new info before going down the legal route. After all, the supplier has an experienced legal department and only they have access to known code defects, previous incidents, remote access history and meter logs.

Are you suggesting the OP lives somewhere like this?



whaticallmother, unfortunately, I suspect you won't get anyone at EON with the time or inclination to actually look into and understand the evidence you now give them, without going small claims. And, even then, with it being quite technical, there could still be some challenges. But, raising the MCOL itself might get someone to take notice.

Reed_Richards

@whaticallmother, you may have forgotten to turn on your immersion heater, if you actually have an immersion heater.

Whilst I really hope that you win your case, I still worry that proving that turning on everything you have in your house now does not prove that you did not have something else in early January that could have consumed a lot more power.  For example, maybe you had a flood and had hired a lot of driers to distribute around your house.  Do you have any photographs showing life in your house carrying on as normal during the period when you were supposed to be consuming massive amounts of power?  

Chris_b2z

MeteredOut said:

Are you suggesting the OP lives somewhere like this?

Ha. Yes, that would be one explanation.

I was thinking more of Tests carried out at University of Twente which found that certain electrical loads can cause widely inaccurate readings on some meters.

BarelySentientAI

Chris_b2z said:

MeteredOut said:

Are you suggesting the OP lives somewhere like this?

Ha. Yes, that would be one explanation.

I was thinking more of Tests carried out at University of Twente which found that certain electrical loads can cause widely inaccurate readings on some meters.

Can I gloat that this research backs up my harmonics theory from page 3?

Reed_Richards

In the old days when we all got our broadband down the copper telephone wires then the wrong Christmas lights could take down your broadband, completely stop it from working.  Inferior lights used switched mode power supplies without enough suppression.  This lead to lots of high frequency "noise" on the mains wring which found its way onto the broadband signal and drowned it out.  I can't work out if this is the same phenomenon that is being blamed for potentially interfering with some electricity meters or if that is something different.   

whaticallmother

Chris_b2z Reed_Richards

Well I can assure everyone that we didn't have any of the below during the period of 1st January and 5th January 2024.  

We did have a Christmas Tree and 6 guests on both Christmas day and boxing day, and still didn't get anywhere near our excessive readings. 




  

Reed_Richards

NiceDogMan said:

.... the usage is due to items running at high rate of usage overnight ... which is quite simply impossible ... just as whaticallmother has experienced.

Not really at all the same, in my opinion.  @whaticallmother had a few days of usage which was so high as to be barely possible.  And then back to normal thereafter.  They didn't catch the problem whilst it was happening so they couldn't run a creep test or any other sort of test.  So they are left trying to convince their supplier that those readings couldn't possibly be genuine and so couldn't possibly be correct.  They do have a smart meter which leaves a remote possibility that it might have been disrupted and then reset a few days later, both remotely.  If you don't have a smart meter that can't happen.  Even if you do have a smart meter it's a pretty remote probability that this could be done.  This thread is the nearest I could find to something odd happening, where the number of decimals on the display got changed:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78704929
But this does pertain to Landis and Gyr E470 meters.

Coincidence?

Anyway, @NiceDogMan, I look forward to reading your own thread.  I can think of at least one possibility for your "impossible" usage.  

Qyburn

NiceDogMan said:

I don't know if it is possible that my Landis and Gyr E150 meter can be manipulated externally by a supplier(?).... does anyone know if this is possible?

If you mean remotely advance the index counts so that the meter over reads, then I'll bet that's not possible. What purpose would there be for implementing that capability?

NiceDogMan

Hi Reed_Richards .... I still feel I have a similar problem to whaticallmother in so far as there has been inexplicably high consumption, which also inexplicably returned to "normal" - although ours was exclusively happening overnight when we have been inactive/sleeping and without operating anything electrical (other than standby items or immersion heater topping up cylinder temperature).  This was only discovered after curiosity caused me to make a close analysis of steadily increasing bills.  The creep test was instructed AFTER the return to a "normal" pattern of higher daytime / lower night-time consumption/readings had occurred, and so was after the "problem" had occurred - thereby also being unable to detect what issue was causing the problem.  I'll have a look at the link you provide ... many thanks!

Hi Qyburn ... My thought about remotely being able to manipulate the meter would point to the possibility of increasing the meter displayed readings in order to charge for more electricity consumption than is actually occurring.  The general comment I currently find is that this just isn't possible, especially with a non-smart meter, but just because no-one (apparently) has yet disclosed that this MAY be possible, doesn't mean that it is definitely not possible.  Meantime, I am still left with a number of months of inexplicably high overnight consumption, which I cannot validate based on the electrical items we have and our normal usage patterns.

Thank you both for your considerations on this matter ... and I expect we will all be eagerly awaiting whaticallmother's outcome of their civil claim ...

BarelySentientAI

NiceDogMan said:

Hi Reed_Richards .... I still feel I have a similar problem to whaticallmother in so far as there has been inexplicably high consumption, which also inexplicably returned to "normal" - although ours was exclusively happening overnight when we have been inactive/sleeping and without operating anything electrical (other than standby items or immersion heater topping up cylinder temperature).  This was only discovered after curiosity caused me to make a close analysis of steadily increasing bills.  The creep test was instructed AFTER the return to a "normal" pattern of higher daytime / lower night-time consumption/readings had occurred, and so was after the "problem" had occurred - thereby also being unable to detect what issue was causing the problem.  I'll have a look at the link you provide ... many thanks!

Hi Qyburn ... My thought about remotely being able to manipulate the meter would point to the possibility of increasing the meter displayed readings in order to charge for more electricity consumption than is actually occurring.  The general comment I currently find is that this just isn't possible, especially with a non-smart meter, but just because no-one (apparently) has yet disclosed that this MAY be possible, doesn't mean that it is definitely not possible.  Meantime, I am still left with a number of months of inexplicably high overnight consumption, which I cannot validate based on the electrical items we have and our normal usage patterns.

Thank you both for your considerations on this matter ... and I expect we will all be eagerly awaiting whaticallmother's outcome of their civil claim ...

You don't have the same problem at all.

They had an actually impossible - physically impossible - set of readings, that they could pinpoint when they occurred and prove that they could only have been caused by an error in the meter.

You have some readings that you think are a bit higher than they should be, and are alleging deliberate fraud and meter tampering on behalf of the supplier because of it.

Unless you have much better information that you have chosen not to tell us, I would keep the (barely veiled) claims of illegal behaviour to a minimum.