Landis GYR+ E470 Type 5394

whaticallmother

We have the E470 smart meter installed at our house,  we noticed during January abnormally high readings for our electricity usage.  On average for the past three years we have been using max 400 KWH per month,  on 6 days it spiked to more KWH in one day than our Monthly usage. 

We questioned this with our supplier and they investigated and said the meter was correct,  Is it possible to use that much KWH in one day,  with an 80amp fuse ?  we are in a debate with our energy supplier about this and they ruled finally today that we used it so we must pay,  but we simply cannot agree to pay it as it seems wrong to us,  any ideas?  We also have Solar panels and heating is Gas.  as this has been going on for sometime they are saying we must pay the £700-800 pounds because we used it and if we don't pay in 16 days they will send the debt collectors around   to be clear it is not that we cannot pay it is we dont agree....we are no electrians or engery gurus hence the ask here.  thank you for any ideas or advice

06/01/2024	Smart	39519	684
05/01/2024	Smart	38835	703
04/01/2024	Smart	38132	691
03/01/2024	Smart	37441	480
02/01/2024	Smart	36961	17
01/01/2024	Smart	36944	313
19/12/2023	Smart	36631	24
18/12/2023	Smart	36607	22
17/12/2023	Smart	36585	592

Bendo

What does Loop or Hugo apps show for the half hourly consumption on those dates?

whaticallmother

Apparently that is only to be used as a guide and is not always accurate !  so we are told by supplier,  we do not also have half hourly consumption view,  but you can see the issue below clearly in my opinion.

11-Jan-24	Smart	39,734	13.0	2.3
10-Jan-24	Smart	39,721	11.0	1.9
09-Jan-24	Smart	39,710	14.0	2.4
08-Jan-24	Smart	39,696	22.0	3.8
07-Jan-24	Smart	39,674	155.0	26.9	Exceeds 80A RCD
06-Jan-24	Smart	39,519	684.0	118.8	Exceeds 80A RCD
05-Jan-24	Smart	38,835	703.0	122.0	Exceeds 80A RCD
04-Jan-24	Smart	38,132	691.0	120.0	Exceeds 80A RCD
03-Jan-24	Smart	37,441	480.0	83.3	Exceeds 80A RCD
02-Jan-24	Smart	36,961	17.0	3.0
01-Jan-24	Smart	36,944	24.1	4.2
19-Dec-23	Smart	36,631	24.0	4.2
18-Dec-23	Smart	36,607	22.0	3.8
17-Dec-23	Smart	36,585	20.4	3.5
18-Nov-23	Smart	35,993	14.4	2.5

BarelySentientAI

whaticallmother said:

Is it possible to use that much KWH in one day,  with an 80amp fuse ?  

Theoretically, yes.  Some of them anyway.  At the statutory voltage limit, you could use about 488kWh in a day without going over 80A.  And an 80A fuse would carry much more than 80A without blowing (fuses are weird), so that's not even a maximum.

It seems extremely unlikely to me, however, that you could do so without noticing.

Do you remember anything like lights flickering on those days?

edit for clarity

MeteredOut

Can you download your 30 minute consumption from n3rgy.com? Having that might really help you show the the consumption is outwith any realistic boundaries. eg, if its measuring 100kWh in one 30 minute slot

If not already done so, get a complaint raised with your supplier. I suspect this will have to end up at the energy ombudsman, and you need to have given the supplier 8 weeks before you can go there (unless you reach deadlock).

gm0

You may well have one (or more than one) of a meter fault. A botched meter install (supplier's issue) or solar install (whoever did that issue but yours meanwhile) and/or faulty inverter.  Or a cabling problem (with communal cabling in multiple dwelling building - a freeholder problem. 

But either the meter is broken.  Or it is sensing correctly but what it is sensing is broken.

An electrician could help give your house wiring a clean bill of health.  


It can be hard to get the supplier front line agents to accept a technical issue and escalate to a metering team. Scheduling a meter check etc. 

So escalation it is.

1) Disputing the bill because it is innacurate. 
2) Because the meter readings are not just innacurate but implausible using example day
3) Requesting that debt follow up be suspended while the metering problem is investigated. 
4) And want to talk there and then to a metering specialist to agree and schedule the meter check or other relevant actions as may be needed.

If the script drone demurs to take these actions at any step. 
Move immediately to opening a formal regulated complaint and start the clock on that. 

All very polite and very firm.

The single day 691kWh is not plausible.  03rd to 4th Jan - use that as the poster child.  120A continuous. 

For that to be true there is a cannabis farm bizarrely connected in (most would hide the farm by looping the meter in the unit / building they are abusing).  Or someone has connected a load of car chargers or electrical heating (electric boiler)  to the wrong cable - yours.  No sane installer should do that but weird things happen out in the world..

If you have a detached house or semi with an isolated attic. And your own single supply (J cable) coming up ot a DNO fuse and then the meter, tails and your CU.  And can see all that is connected to the meter - then a lot of these other possibilities can easily be eliminated.  In terraces and flats - not so clear cut.

You can eliminate the wait for a meter check/visit with a £20 current clamp meter from Amazon.  Measure the Amps. Multiply by 240 for instant kW.  Hanging off the meter tail from meter to your CU (seeing all your load).

If it's "what you expect".  Meter fault if its reading 10x with the same load.  If it's weirdly high - then something else is going on - which you need to understand before resolving the who/what/when of consumption billing

If the load is high - wiring/a neighbour with a cannabis farm has picked up a stray attic cable on your supply and used it for grow lights/ventilation.  If building structure means that is is a practical possibility.

FreeBear

BarelySentientAI said:

whaticallmother said:

Is it possible to use that much KWH in one day,  with an 80amp fuse ?  

Theoretically, yes.  At the statutory voltage limit, you could use about 488kWh in a day without going over 80A.  And an 80A fuse would carry much more than 80A without blowing (fuses are weird), so that's not even a maximum.

An 80A incomer fuse will quite happily pass 100A or more without ever blowing. At 120A it might take a couple of minutes to blow, and when it does, it will be a big bang. For more information, take a look at the curves here - https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Fuse#Incomer_Fuses_.28BS_88_.22HRC.22_.26_BS_1361.29

BarelySentientAI

FreeBear said:

BarelySentientAI said:

whaticallmother said:

Is it possible to use that much KWH in one day,  with an 80amp fuse ?  

Theoretically, yes.  At the statutory voltage limit, you could use about 488kWh in a day without going over 80A.  And an 80A fuse would carry much more than 80A without blowing (fuses are weird), so that's not even a maximum.

An 80A incomer fuse will quite happily pass 100A or more without ever blowing. At 120A it might take a couple of minutes to blow, and when it does, it will be a big bang. For more information, take a look at the curves here - https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Fuse#Incomer_Fuses_.28BS_88_.22HRC.22_.26_BS_1361.29

The fuse curve leads to interesting things happening in domestic installations - 16A (and sometimes 20A) MCBs are often found tripped in preference to 13A plug fuses.

I know that isn't 88-2, it's 1362, but the same principle.

Anyway, several of the daily readings posted here are clearly wrong even if some are technically possible.

whaticallmother

Thank you all for your comments,  i am so glad i am not going crackers,  and there is no canabis farm for sure although that might help pay the bill of £1050 they want to charge us via a debt collector !!

Bendo

Regardless of what they say about the half hourly data, it is accurate.  You need to pull that data either via loop, hugo or direct via n3rgy. If that shows the increment in one half hour rather than across the whole day then it helps point more at a meter fault.

Have you raised it as a complaint, if not do so now and ask for a deadlock letter to take to the ombudsman and present your case there with the half hourly data.

Reed_Richards

January was a long time ago.  What has happened since?