REVIVING THE PRIVATE PARKING BILL

Nellymoser

Emmia said:

Government responses to both consultations and call for evidence exercises are also required to be published, and a summary of the responses received is included in the explanatory documents that accompany legislation - this would be something like 

"A 12 week public consultation was held between X date and Y date. XX responses were received, of which Y responses supported the proposals.... Key points made in the consultation include [insert key points]"

Yes they are required to be published as per the Consultation Principles but despite repeated requests from MPs and others the DLUHC Minister failed to adhere to this Principle. Eight months past and no summary of the responses received to the Private Parking CoP Call for Evidence consultation was published. Why? Incompetence or some other reason. And will we ever get to know what the received responses were. 

Castle

Emmia said:

patient_dream said:

Coupon-mad said:

Assuming Labour win, there won't be a Dept called 'Levelling Up' for very long, surely.

But I sincerely hope the private parking statutory regime stays with Housing & Communities.  That is the right place for it.

BTW, by reassuring posters that this IS in hand, I'm not wishing to put anyone off lobbying your local MP to impress on the Secretary of State responsible, that the final draft IA & Public Consultation work to implement the new Statutory Code MUST be pushed through as a priority.

Whether we like it or not, Labour will win and Angela Rayner will head up the Dept of Levelling Up as well as deputy PM
Whatever they decide to call it, who knows, what we do know is that Housing & Communities was run by ministers who were clueless and we don't want a repeat of that ?

A public consultation .... what a waste of time and money, they already know about this scam industry ... how do they expect to reach millions of motorists ..... they are the public

Public consultations are required as part of the process to get to legislation to enable views to be gathered. Your view on this is only one viewpoint, someone else might have a different view (like a council, a parking company, a shopping centre...)

We have already had THREE public consultations on the subject; how many do they need?

Emmia

Castle said:

Emmia said:

patient_dream said:

Coupon-mad said:

Assuming Labour win, there won't be a Dept called 'Levelling Up' for very long, surely.

But I sincerely hope the private parking statutory regime stays with Housing & Communities.  That is the right place for it.

BTW, by reassuring posters that this IS in hand, I'm not wishing to put anyone off lobbying your local MP to impress on the Secretary of State responsible, that the final draft IA & Public Consultation work to implement the new Statutory Code MUST be pushed through as a priority.

Whether we like it or not, Labour will win and Angela Rayner will head up the Dept of Levelling Up as well as deputy PM
Whatever they decide to call it, who knows, what we do know is that Housing & Communities was run by ministers who were clueless and we don't want a repeat of that ?

A public consultation .... what a waste of time and money, they already know about this scam industry ... how do they expect to reach millions of motorists ..... they are the public

Public consultations are required as part of the process to get to legislation to enable views to be gathered. Your view on this is only one viewpoint, someone else might have a different view (like a council, a parking company, a shopping centre...)

We have already had THREE public consultations on the subject; how many do they need?

I think this is an emotive subject - on the one hand you have people like those on MSE who battle against parking companies etc. but on the other side you have landowners and councils who need to manage the volume, and locations in which vehicles are parked - and use parking companies to manage this.

Both sides have valid points. Neither is 100% right all the time.

Umkomaas

and use parking companies to manage this.

Not 'managing' the job very well, given the exponential year-on-year increase in PCNs - over 12 million issued in the past year!  How can ANPR cameras 'manage' a car park. 

prowla

Emmia said:

Castle said:

Emmia said:

patient_dream said:

Coupon-mad said:

Assuming Labour win, there won't be a Dept called 'Levelling Up' for very long, surely.

But I sincerely hope the private parking statutory regime stays with Housing & Communities.  That is the right place for it.

BTW, by reassuring posters that this IS in hand, I'm not wishing to put anyone off lobbying your local MP to impress on the Secretary of State responsible, that the final draft IA & Public Consultation work to implement the new Statutory Code MUST be pushed through as a priority.

Whether we like it or not, Labour will win and Angela Rayner will head up the Dept of Levelling Up as well as deputy PM
Whatever they decide to call it, who knows, what we do know is that Housing & Communities was run by ministers who were clueless and we don't want a repeat of that ?

A public consultation .... what a waste of time and money, they already know about this scam industry ... how do they expect to reach millions of motorists ..... they are the public

Public consultations are required as part of the process to get to legislation to enable views to be gathered. Your view on this is only one viewpoint, someone else might have a different view (like a council, a parking company, a shopping centre...)

We have already had THREE public consultations on the subject; how many do they need?

I think this is an emotive subject - on the one hand you have people like those on MSE who battle against parking companies etc. but on the other side you have landowners and councils who need to manage the volume, and locations in which vehicles are parked - and use parking companies to manage this.

Both sides have valid points. Neither is 100% right all the time.

In my particular case (the one I wrote to my MP and Counciller about) the parking companies have resolved the volume issue, as I haven't been back to my local retail park in the past 2-3 years.

Halfords, Curry's, The Range, Morrisons, and whatever other shops are there have lost my business.

saajan_12

Emmia said:

Castle said:

Emmia said:

patient_dream said:

Coupon-mad said:

Assuming Labour win, there won't be a Dept called 'Levelling Up' for very long, surely.

But I sincerely hope the private parking statutory regime stays with Housing & Communities.  That is the right place for it.

BTW, by reassuring posters that this IS in hand, I'm not wishing to put anyone off lobbying your local MP to impress on the Secretary of State responsible, that the final draft IA & Public Consultation work to implement the new Statutory Code MUST be pushed through as a priority.

Whether we like it or not, Labour will win and Angela Rayner will head up the Dept of Levelling Up as well as deputy PM
Whatever they decide to call it, who knows, what we do know is that Housing & Communities was run by ministers who were clueless and we don't want a repeat of that ?

A public consultation .... what a waste of time and money, they already know about this scam industry ... how do they expect to reach millions of motorists ..... they are the public

Public consultations are required as part of the process to get to legislation to enable views to be gathered. Your view on this is only one viewpoint, someone else might have a different view (like a council, a parking company, a shopping centre...)

We have already had THREE public consultations on the subject; how many do they need?

I think this is an emotive subject - on the one hand you have people like those on MSE who battle against parking companies etc. but on the other side you have landowners and councils who need to manage the volume, and locations in which vehicles are parked - and use parking companies to manage this.

Both sides have valid points. Neither is 100% right all the time.

Umkomaas said:

and use parking companies to manage this.

Not 'managing' the job very well, given the exponential year-on-year increase in PCNs - over 12 million issued in the past year!  How can ANPR cameras 'manage' a car park. 

Genuine question, what do people think the alternative is - fully understand the problems with the current situation, which is rife with false positives, escalates in £ terms quickly and clogs up the courts. However what's do people think the alternative is on the basis that

a) there are some areas with limited public parking compared to the demand, 
b) as such, there is a desire to control parking to either charge or keep space for residents / customers of a business
c) not everyone is honest, some may fail to pay the charge / get the permit, and if the claim is limited to the price of the ticket then there's no incentive against just not paying and hoping they don't catch up to you
d) it might not be feasible to install barriers plus the staffing to let cars out if there's an issue (without increasing parking costs)

Emmia

saajan_12 said:

Emmia said:

Castle said:

Emmia said:

patient_dream said:

Coupon-mad said:

Assuming Labour win, there won't be a Dept called 'Levelling Up' for very long, surely.

But I sincerely hope the private parking statutory regime stays with Housing & Communities.  That is the right place for it.

BTW, by reassuring posters that this IS in hand, I'm not wishing to put anyone off lobbying your local MP to impress on the Secretary of State responsible, that the final draft IA & Public Consultation work to implement the new Statutory Code MUST be pushed through as a priority.

Whether we like it or not, Labour will win and Angela Rayner will head up the Dept of Levelling Up as well as deputy PM
Whatever they decide to call it, who knows, what we do know is that Housing & Communities was run by ministers who were clueless and we don't want a repeat of that ?

A public consultation .... what a waste of time and money, they already know about this scam industry ... how do they expect to reach millions of motorists ..... they are the public

Public consultations are required as part of the process to get to legislation to enable views to be gathered. Your view on this is only one viewpoint, someone else might have a different view (like a council, a parking company, a shopping centre...)

We have already had THREE public consultations on the subject; how many do they need?

I think this is an emotive subject - on the one hand you have people like those on MSE who battle against parking companies etc. but on the other side you have landowners and councils who need to manage the volume, and locations in which vehicles are parked - and use parking companies to manage this.

Both sides have valid points. Neither is 100% right all the time.

Umkomaas said:

and use parking companies to manage this.

Not 'managing' the job very well, given the exponential year-on-year increase in PCNs - over 12 million issued in the past year!  How can ANPR cameras 'manage' a car park. 

Genuine question, what do people think the alternative is - fully understand the problems with the current situation, which is rife with false positives, escalates in £ terms quickly and clogs up the courts. However what's do people think the alternative is on the basis that

a) there are some areas with limited public parking compared to the demand, 
b) as such, there is a desire to control parking to either charge or keep space for residents / customers of a business
c) not everyone is honest, some may fail to pay the charge / get the permit, and if the claim is limited to the price of the ticket then there's no incentive against just not paying and hoping they don't catch up to you
d) it might not be feasible to install barriers plus the staffing to let cars out if there's an issue (without increasing parking costs)

I would also be interested in what MSE'rs think the answer is... Genuine question. 

I don't currently have a car, but I see lots of car drivers taking the proverbial when it comes to parking where they shouldn't.

The_Slithy_Tove

saajan_12 said:

Genuine question, what do people think the alternative is - fully understand the problems with the current situation, which is rife with false positives, escalates in £ terms quickly and clogs up the courts. However what's do people think the alternative is on the basis that

a) there are some areas with limited public parking compared to the demand, 
b) as such, there is a desire to control parking to either charge or keep space for residents / customers of a business
c) not everyone is honest, some may fail to pay the charge / get the permit, and if the claim is limited to the price of the ticket then there's no incentive against just not paying and hoping they don't catch up to you
d) it might not be feasible to install barriers plus the staffing to let cars out if there's an issue (without increasing parking costs)

I don't think people are saying private parking shouldn't be "managed", it's just that "management" is being misused as an excuse for profiteering rather than actually managing parking. The new CoP goes some way to addressing this. Other suggestions (which will reduce the PPCs' income for which we'll play our smallest violin) include:

• Less "officious" ticketing in residential car parks, allowing genuine failures to display permits, visitors, loading and delivery vehicles, easier cancellation
• Not "managing" residential parking at all when there's not a problem (aside: I stayed in an apartment in Tenby recently. Right by the beach, and parking is generally tight and costs. Yet while there were permits, the only enforcement was the caretaker would place a polite notice on vehicles not displaying a permit. There didn't seem to be any issue of day-tourists taking the p***).
• Not enforcing retail parking out of hours, or at other times when there's not really an issue. If you want to stop the local "yoof" having an inpromtu car meet, close a barrier in the evening.
• Allowing easy appeals via retailers in retail car parks for genuine customers who have made a mistake or overstayed due to a long shopping trip/meal/etc.
• Use a barrier system where practical, such that you have to pay for the time on site - the Forestry Commission do this in their car parks, and it works fine.
• Not issuing a ticket for trivial infringements, like parking on the line
• Not making up ridiculous rules just to get income, e.g. PE's ruse to make people guess how long they've been there even though the "system" knows exactly, or allowing people to pay at any point during (or even after) their stay for time actually spent in the car park (all technologically easy to do).

I could go on.

Coupon-mad

Good summary.

In my view, if the statutory Code and robust, independent scrutiny doesn't sort out the sharks within the first 2 years, we'll need legislation again:

If PPC World can't stop ripping people off, I say we'll need some strong steps:

- ANPR will have to be banned on private land

and

- landowners be given limited powers to manage parking (but no longer being allowed to use third parties)

and

- the sum of the parking charge be capped at £50 (£25 discount).

I don't care if that means most PPCs die. They can go and work directly for landowners as ordinary employees.

What does need to also be stopped completely, is roboclaims in the small claims track. Probably copying the Scottish model (no costs allowed for Claims under £300, ideally being expanded to ban costs recovery in claims under £1000).

Or remove parking claims from the small claims track altogether.

Protest

Sadly the best efforts of the Steering Group did not accelerate the process, or deliver a secure draft Code, over the past 5 years.  I sat at Parkex23 listening to BPA  laughing at the ineptitude of the DLUHC people concerned and promising zero progress until at least the 2024 election, an outcome they delivered. They have now presented the code they will accept and, by inference, flagged up the no-go zone which of course contains the main substance of the legislative intention. I don't think DLUHC have quite understood that this not just a cosy consultative process, but is a fight that will likely close some of the worst firms (redistributing their work elsewhere). And I will be very surprised if a new Government/SoS/Minister will actually have the stomach for a fight without some loud, angry and encouraging noise coming from MPs of all parties. And several hungry barristers standing alongside DLUHC when the real Code hits the street!

If a local MP is unsympathetic you may need to kick !!!!!! a bit. We have an action group of almost 900 people including the leader of our District Council so we do have a bit of clout! You give them a question to pose to the relevant Minister and wait for the wondrous go-away response! My own experience has generally been positive albeit frustrating at times. You might also check out support from local journalists. And buy a big drum - or anything to make a noise.