My pension lump sum was paid out but not to me

susssy

redofromstart said:

Hi,

its all fairly speculative at the moment. I'd ask them to confirm your entitlement and any benefits in writing.

Is it a defined benefit or a defined contribution scheme?   The lump sum sounds to me like an offer to buy out benefits because they wanted to close a defined benefit scheme. Would you (and the person who shared your DOB) have been over 55 at the point the lump sum payout occurred?

I have been involved with TUPE and company takeovers and  It isn't uncommon to buy a company with a DB scheme and then go through a process to encourage the DB members to take a lump sum into another pension scheme to lose the unknown liability for the company.  It was usually a limited time opportunity and no obligation on the employer to offer it again.

the key thing for me would be to establish the type of pension you had previously, and what it was worth either in terms of total pot or in annual income. The provider should maintain that and ensure that you still got what you should have done based on the original scheme rules. Do you have any original paperwork? Roughly how much is the pot worth - 'trivial' amounts under a certain value etc.  

I have no paperwork at all it was 41 years ago and i did not eveen know i had the pension.  I was over 55 when it was offered back in 2016 and i do remember seeing Rolls Royce appear on some income tax documents which i complained to hmrc about as I said I never worked for Rolls Royce but now it all makes sense as the company i worked for was NEI Projects and they were taken over by Rolls Royce

Silvertabby

FIREDreamer said:

LHW99 said:

That would be the normal reason - it's not uncommon for people to have small pensions of a couple of hundred pounds a year if they were in a low paid job and did not stay in it very long.

And in my case £6 per year. I got a small pot lump sum of something like £109 to close it down

If the £6 was index linked with a spouse pension you were robbed, but in the scheme of things hardly life changing (maybe worth £300 if it was 3 years ago, £150 now) or worth making a fuss about. 

Depends on the circumstances.  Yes, I know that rule of thumb is to keep taking the pension, but last year Mr S was offered a small pot commutation by one of his providers.

This was a tiny private sector DB that had been in payment for over 10 years.  He had originally taken the maximum 25% tax free cash option, and the remaining pension - although index linked and with 50% spousal benefits - was just over £20 per month after tax.  

The offer was over £8K before (20%) tax.

He filled out the claim form and I sent off for a Rhino greenhouses brochure.

Flugelhorn

Silvertabby said:

He filled out the claim form and I sent off for a Rhino greenhouses brochure.

  good result! 

Silvertabby

Flugelhorn said:

Silvertabby said:

He filled out the claim form and I sent off for a Rhino greenhouses brochure.

  good result! 

It was on my wish list, but my 18 year old Hall's greenhouse was refusing to give up the ghost!  No excuses with this windfall - and, believe the hype - Rhinos really are the Rolls Royces of greenhouses.  

And my old Halls went to a good home, so win-win all round.

LHW99

Silvertabby said:

FIREDreamer said:

LHW99 said:

That would be the normal reason - it's not uncommon for people to have small pensions of a couple of hundred pounds a year if they were in a low paid job and did not stay in it very long.

And in my case £6 per year. I got a small pot lump sum of something like £109 to close it down

If the £6 was index linked with a spouse pension you were robbed, but in the scheme of things hardly life changing (maybe worth £300 if it was 3 years ago, £150 now) or worth making a fuss about. 

Depends on the circumstances.  Yes, I know that rule of thumb is to keep taking the pension, but last year Mr S was offered a small pot commutation by one of his providers.

This was a tiny private sector DB that had been in payment for over 10 years.  He had originally taken the maximum 25% tax free cash option, and the remaining pension - although index linked and with 50% spousal benefits - was just over £20 per month after tax.  

The offer was over £8K before (20%) tax.

He filled out the claim form and I sent off for a Rhino greenhouses brochure.

Unfortunately there was no index linking and the annual amount offered was the same as predicted in 1975 when I left the job. Thankfully I have been able to build up provision since.

Southend_2

I have a tiny deferred CARE pension currently worth 79p a year plus lump sum of £2.37. Will be interesting to see what they offer at NRD (over 20 years to go yet) in the way of trivial commutation.

Eldi_Dos

susssy said:

redofromstart said:

Hi,

its all fairly speculative at the moment. I'd ask them to confirm your entitlement and any benefits in writing.

Is it a defined benefit or a defined contribution scheme?   The lump sum sounds to me like an offer to buy out benefits because they wanted to close a defined benefit scheme. Would you (and the person who shared your DOB) have been over 55 at the point the lump sum payout occurred?

I have been involved with TUPE and company takeovers and  It isn't uncommon to buy a company with a DB scheme and then go through a process to encourage the DB members to take a lump sum into another pension scheme to lose the unknown liability for the company.  It was usually a limited time opportunity and no obligation on the employer to offer it again.

the key thing for me would be to establish the type of pension you had previously, and what it was worth either in terms of total pot or in annual income. The provider should maintain that and ensure that you still got what you should have done based on the original scheme rules. Do you have any original paperwork? Roughly how much is the pot worth - 'trivial' amounts under a certain value etc.  

the payout amount was 5887.00 net and yes it was that they wanted to close the scheme but now they are saying i am not entitled to take that lump sum which I think is unfair as they made the error in giving it to the wrong person I last worked for them 41years ago and have since had various addresses and two different surnames I did not even realise i had the pension until I invstigated lost pensions.  Surely this is a data breach also 

If you really want the lump sum that was on offer to you in 2016 rather than the pension and they are unwilling to do so I would be looking into contacting the Pension Ombudsman for advice and maybe starting a complaint.

Be interesting if the person who got your payment in 2016 also received one in their own right.

artyboy

Eldi_Dos said:

susssy said:

redofromstart said:

Hi,

its all fairly speculative at the moment. I'd ask them to confirm your entitlement and any benefits in writing.

Is it a defined benefit or a defined contribution scheme?   The lump sum sounds to me like an offer to buy out benefits because they wanted to close a defined benefit scheme. Would you (and the person who shared your DOB) have been over 55 at the point the lump sum payout occurred?

I have been involved with TUPE and company takeovers and  It isn't uncommon to buy a company with a DB scheme and then go through a process to encourage the DB members to take a lump sum into another pension scheme to lose the unknown liability for the company.  It was usually a limited time opportunity and no obligation on the employer to offer it again.

the key thing for me would be to establish the type of pension you had previously, and what it was worth either in terms of total pot or in annual income. The provider should maintain that and ensure that you still got what you should have done based on the original scheme rules. Do you have any original paperwork? Roughly how much is the pot worth - 'trivial' amounts under a certain value etc.  

the payout amount was 5887.00 net and yes it was that they wanted to close the scheme but now they are saying i am not entitled to take that lump sum which I think is unfair as they made the error in giving it to the wrong person I last worked for them 41years ago and have since had various addresses and two different surnames I did not even realise i had the pension until I invstigated lost pensions.  Surely this is a data breach also 

If you really want the lump sum that was on offer to you in 2016 rather than the pension and they are unwilling to do so I would be looking into contacting the Pension Ombudsman for advice and maybe starting a complaint.

Be interesting if the person who got your payment in 2016 also received one in their own right.

Well given more than 6 years have passed, I guess it's too late for the trustees to claw it back!

Eldi_Dos

artyboy said:

Eldi_Dos said:

susssy said:

redofromstart said:

Hi,

its all fairly speculative at the moment. I'd ask them to confirm your entitlement and any benefits in writing.

Is it a defined benefit or a defined contribution scheme?   The lump sum sounds to me like an offer to buy out benefits because they wanted to close a defined benefit scheme. Would you (and the person who shared your DOB) have been over 55 at the point the lump sum payout occurred?

I have been involved with TUPE and company takeovers and  It isn't uncommon to buy a company with a DB scheme and then go through a process to encourage the DB members to take a lump sum into another pension scheme to lose the unknown liability for the company.  It was usually a limited time opportunity and no obligation on the employer to offer it again.

the key thing for me would be to establish the type of pension you had previously, and what it was worth either in terms of total pot or in annual income. The provider should maintain that and ensure that you still got what you should have done based on the original scheme rules. Do you have any original paperwork? Roughly how much is the pot worth - 'trivial' amounts under a certain value etc.  

the payout amount was 5887.00 net and yes it was that they wanted to close the scheme but now they are saying i am not entitled to take that lump sum which I think is unfair as they made the error in giving it to the wrong person I last worked for them 41years ago and have since had various addresses and two different surnames I did not even realise i had the pension until I invstigated lost pensions.  Surely this is a data breach also 

If you really want the lump sum that was on offer to you in 2016 rather than the pension and they are unwilling to do so I would be looking into contacting the Pension Ombudsman for advice and maybe starting a complaint.

Be interesting if the person who got your payment in 2016 also received one in their own right.

Well given more than 6 years have passed, I guess it's too late for the trustees to claw it back!

Do not think that is true if a fraud is involved, the six years would kick in from when it was discovered.

artyboy

Eldi_Dos said:

artyboy said:

Eldi_Dos said:

susssy said:

redofromstart said:

Hi,

its all fairly speculative at the moment. I'd ask them to confirm your entitlement and any benefits in writing.

Is it a defined benefit or a defined contribution scheme?   The lump sum sounds to me like an offer to buy out benefits because they wanted to close a defined benefit scheme. Would you (and the person who shared your DOB) have been over 55 at the point the lump sum payout occurred?

I have been involved with TUPE and company takeovers and  It isn't uncommon to buy a company with a DB scheme and then go through a process to encourage the DB members to take a lump sum into another pension scheme to lose the unknown liability for the company.  It was usually a limited time opportunity and no obligation on the employer to offer it again.

the key thing for me would be to establish the type of pension you had previously, and what it was worth either in terms of total pot or in annual income. The provider should maintain that and ensure that you still got what you should have done based on the original scheme rules. Do you have any original paperwork? Roughly how much is the pot worth - 'trivial' amounts under a certain value etc.  

the payout amount was 5887.00 net and yes it was that they wanted to close the scheme but now they are saying i am not entitled to take that lump sum which I think is unfair as they made the error in giving it to the wrong person I last worked for them 41years ago and have since had various addresses and two different surnames I did not even realise i had the pension until I invstigated lost pensions.  Surely this is a data breach also 

If you really want the lump sum that was on offer to you in 2016 rather than the pension and they are unwilling to do so I would be looking into contacting the Pension Ombudsman for advice and maybe starting a complaint.

Be interesting if the person who got your payment in 2016 also received one in their own right.

Well given more than 6 years have passed, I guess it's too late for the trustees to claw it back!

Do not think that is true if a fraud is involved, the six years would kick in from when it was discovered.

Fraud perhaps. But if it was mistakenly paid to someone that just assumed it was some extra payment, because pensions are so complicated etc etc, how easy would that be to claw back do you think?