Where can I park on these title deeds?? Please help

user1977

Altior said:

we have a shared forecourt but the shared space does not fall with anyone's property boundary. The light is out so at night it is literally pitch black but no idea who should be rectifying it. It's been like that for more than five years now! No management company involved. 

The land is within somebody's property boundary - it's got to be owned by someone (even if that might be e.g. a defunct builder). Haven't you checked? What advice did you get when you bought about this sort of stuff?

Altior

It's quite a complex scenario, as it was originally shared ownership, I now own outright, but remains a leasehold for me. The other users of the forecourt are all freehold. My original lease had flaws which neither my solicitor or I identified at the time of original purchase. There's nothing in the lease specifically around the forecourt. Of course I don't want to derail the thread with my own subject. I started a thread on here when I was arranging the 100% staircasing. There's another one about the HA screwing up the service charges after I staircased that also talks about the lease. 

BarelySentientAI

Altior said:

Cheers, but in this case the OP states the cul de sac is managed. So we think that the other yellow shaded area on the plan is inside the boundary of other property(s). And for example, if a pothole developed inside the OP's boundary but within the yellow area, the OP would be liable for the repair? It interested me as we have a shared forecourt but the shared space does not fall with anyone's property boundary. The light is out so at night it is literally pitch black but no idea who should be rectifying it. It's been like that for more than five years now! No management company involved. 

My cul-de-sac is managed, but there's a block paving area at the end that acts as access to the garages for the last four properties.  The property boundaries for each of those houses split the shared area into four narrow strips that each owns but cannot block. (My rough drawing of the plot boundaries below).



For your situation, have you tried looking at the Land Registry map to see whether the shared area is part of a registered plot?  Then you could find out who owns it.

bobster2

Altior said:

Why would a property boundary encompass a shared space that must be left clear at all times. Seems very strange to this lay person. 

It is VERY common to have a right of way across your land. A right of way that needs to remain clear. Not strange at all.
Not an area of shared ownership - but part of the land that someone owns that they need to leave clear to let other people travel across it. It's not a fully "shared space" - as others are not entitled to do anything in that space other than travel across it.
In the OPs example - the area in question is beyond the end of the cul-de-sac (road) - and part of their property.

pinkshoes

Robbie467 said:

I live in a small cul-de-sac maintained by a management company. The area shown on my deeds is my property boundary. The area in yellow is a shared access area. I have been parking a vehicle in the yellow area against the fence but within my boundary (shown in other picture) only on odd occasions when parking has been limited. One neighbour who has just moved in (plot 222) has complained that the car is blocking their access which clearly it isn’t but she has complained to the management company and they have informed me that parking here is in breach of the lease and so I am not allowed to park there (even though it is within my boundary) I haven’t been able to check the lease conditions as yet but I would like any advice on this please. I will be contacting land registry on Monday to see if they can shed any light on this. You can see on the actual picture their garage on the right by the green arrow the vehicle is no where near. No one else has ever complained but them. 

Any help would be massively appreciated. 

This is quite a common set up.

Plot 222 I assume own one or both of those garages shown in the lower photo? There is clearly a parking space in front of each garage, but the yellow zone needs to be kept clear to allow cars to get through to the garages. 

We have very similar - we can in theory park 6 cars on "our" driveway, but two of our neighbours have right of way over the back of our driveway, so we have to keep in clear and cannot park on it. In practice the neighbours don't use the back of our drive and drive up the footpath area instead but we still have to keep it clear.

My parents also have the same in a courtyard with 3 houses - they can all park in front of their garages but NOT in the shared space. The courtyard bit is on my parent's deeds though so they are responsible for the upkeep (with cost shared between all three neighbours if maintenance required).

Who has the other yellow bit on their deeds?

Robbie467

Altior said:

Cheers, but in this case the OP states the cul de sac is managed. So we think that the other yellow shaded area on the plan is inside the boundary of other property(s). And for example, if a pothole developed inside the OP's boundary but within the yellow area, the OP would be liable for the repair? It interested me as we have a shared forecourt but the shared space does not fall with anyone's property boundary. The light is out so at night it is literally pitch black but no idea who should be rectifying it. It's been like that for more than five years now! No management company involved. 

This is why I originally posted this question,  the boundary of the neighbour who complained falls short of the shared area as you can see on the pic which is what confused me but it appears from the people who have commented that this is quite a common thing.. I haven’t parked there since but someone next door to the complaining neighbour has, so  I’m just wondering if they have been reported by her yet. I hope it’s not like you say that when a hole appears or damage i will have to pay. I think it would have been better to end my boundary at the end of my driveway then it’s clear to see who has what. In your case I would have thought it would have been adopted by the council if you don’t have a management company maintaining it? 

Robbie467

I really appreciate all the comments you have all left. I guess it’s just unlucky that I have the smallest drive only capable of holding one car. Everyone else has room for at least 2 so basically it sucks for me. There is room for people to access drives and even turn round, it’s just her being awkward but at the end of the day the area is shared and that’s it I have to respect the rules but so does everyone else. She has made this an issue so I’ll be ready with my camera when she decides to park there, if I can’t no one can. It looks a familiar sight nowadays with housing developers trying to squeeze in as many houses as possible not really caring about the amount of space for parking. But thanks again everyone, it’s been very informative. 

Section62

Robbie467 said:

In your case I would have thought it would have been adopted by the council if you don’t have a management company maintaining it? 

If it is any comfort, some people are worse off than you.... there are many cases where this kind of shared access exists with no formal arrangement for maintenance.  The council wouldn't necessarily have adopted these areas, and are probably unlikely to as they come with a heap of problems and don't do much in terms of benefitting wider society.

If there is no management co involved then typically it is up to the residents to sort things out themselves, and without everything being clearly set out in the deeds it can be a nightmare for the residents to sort out.  It only takes one of them being 'difficult' to create that headache.

Robbie467

Section62 said:

Robbie467 said:

In your case I would have thought it would have been adopted by the council if you don’t have a management company maintaining it? 

If it is any comfort, some people are worse off than you.... there are many cases where this kind of shared access exists with no formal arrangement for maintenance.  The council wouldn't necessarily have adopted these areas, and are probably unlikely to as they come with a heap of problems and don't do much in terms of benefitting wider society.

If there is no management co involved then typically it is up to the residents to sort things out themselves, and without everything being clearly set out in the deeds it can be a nightmare for the residents to sort out.  It only takes one of them being 'difficult' to create that headache.

Yes I completely agree with all that. Especially when it comes to repairs, trying to sort out the money to pay for it to be done, someone to sort of take charge and get the money from residents. I struggle to get half the money for a shared £12 fence panel from one of my adjoining neighbours so when it comes to hundreds of pounds then yes I can see the massive headache with that. I can see the benefits of a management company now although they do seem quite expensive and when the breakdown of it arrives a lot of it is management “fees” but I suppose it takes the other side out of not having them manage it. I do feel better about it now lol. 

Robbie467

The complainants next door neighbour last night who she gets along with.. I wonder if she is reporting them for parking there … I bet she doesn’t…. I actually can’t wait for her to park there…. I will have so much pleasure sending them the picture 😊