Morrisons Pay-At-The-Pump Warning

Exodi

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

As these are offline transactions it meant people could spend money they didn't have, so could get £50 worth of fuel but only have £5 in their account. Pre-auth prevents this but penalises those with £50 in their account who only want £20 worth of fuel. 

Sorry but I don't follow the logic - if the transactions are offline, how does a pre-authorisation check someones balance and/or stop someone spending money they don't have? The previous pre-authorisation amount was £1... It feels like you've rushed to tell me I was wrong without really offering any reasonable alternative explanation.

I'd expect that fuel stations are no longer offline as the pre-auth can be declined in real-time, if there is insufficient funds.

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/policy-and-guidance/guidance/pay-at-pump

"Previously customers had £1 pre-authorisation taken from their account to confirm that their card was valid before they began to fill up. The exact cost of the fuel would then appear on the customer's account typically one or two days after the transaction. "

This is likely the 'offline days' you refer to. The £1 was not checked and was a token amount only to see if the card approved the transaction (confirming the pin entered was correct).

"Under the new system, the transaction will be posted to the account straight away, meaning the customer should see an accurate balance on their account as soon as they have finished filling up and paid the correct amount. The new system also helps to ensure customers have enough funds to pay for the petrol required. "
"If a customer's account balance is less than £120, this is communicated to the petrol pump by their bank or card company, enabling only that amount of fuel to be dispensed. The pump will then automatically cut out once the customer has reached the approved amount."

This doesn't sound offline to me.

BoGoF

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

As these are offline transactions it meant people could spend money they didn't have, so could get £50 worth of fuel but only have £5 in their account. Pre-auth prevents this but penalises those with £50 in their account who only want £20 worth of fuel. 

Sorry but I don't follow the logic - if the transactions are offline, how does a pre-authorisation check someones balance and/or stop someone spending money they don't have? The previous pre-authorisation amount was £1... It feels like you've rushed to tell me I was wrong without really offering any reasonable alternative explanation.

I'd expect that fuel stations are no longer offline as the pre-auth can be declined in real-time, if there is insufficient funds.

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/policy-and-guidance/guidance/pay-at-pump

"Previously customers had £1 pre-authorisation taken from their account to confirm that their card was valid before they began to fill up. The exact cost of the fuel would then appear on the customer's account typically one or two days after the transaction. "

This is likely the 'offline days' you refer to. The £1 was not checked and was a token amount only to see if the card approved the transaction (confirming the pin entered was correct).

"Under the new system, the transaction will be posted to the account straight away, meaning the customer should see an accurate balance on their account as soon as they have finished filling up and paid the correct amount. The new system also helps to ensure customers have enough funds to pay for the petrol required. "

"If a customer's account balance is less than £120, this is communicated to the petrol pump by their bank or card company, enabling only that amount of fuel to be dispensed. The pump will then automatically cut out once the customer has reached the approved amount."

This doesn't sound offline to me.

Ok were offline if it makes you happy. Still nothing to do with theft.

user1977

EnPointe said:

the whole myth of 'people will stop retailers from doing  something '  has  been proven to work once in the entire  history og mankind and that was Booths  in it;s tiny  Niche  dropping   self  service tills. 

And even that wasn't the true reason - they were dropping them because of other problems they had with the tills, but dressed it up as them listening to customer feedback...

born_again

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

Because Visa & Mastercard introduced this after consultation with retailer merchant banks, card providers & regulators. It also brings their UK & Europe regulations in line.
As someone else mentioned, to stop people spending more than they had available & incurring fee's. Then kicking off about being charged for their overspending. Blaming banks for not having a system in place to stop it.
Now there is, people still kick off.

Think it was back in 2018 when it was 1st introduced in UK (Europe had been going long before with no problems) People kicked off, media got involved & it was dropped. Only to be brought back a couple of years ago.

Can never please everyone 🤷‍♀️

elsien

Betterthanlife said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

To confuse pensioners, apparently 

I'm not yet a pensioner, but I'm often confused anyway. 
Although as a side note, at what age are we now classifying people as pensionsers.
As a woman it would have been 60. Now it's 67. It may well change again in the future to an even older retirement age. Am I only allowed to play the age card when I hit that magic target? 

MattMattMattUK

elsien said:

Betterthanlife said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

To confuse pensioners, apparently 

I'm not yet a pensioner, but I'm often confused anyway. 
Although as a side note, at what age are we now classifying people as pensionsers.
As a woman it would have been 60. Now it's 67. It may well change again in the future to an even older retirement age. Am I only allowed to play the age card when I hit that magic target? 

Pensioners I generally think of 70+ even though I know people do retire before that.

I do not understand the pensioners group as an automatic correlation with "mentally incapable", I know quite a lot of very capable pensioners, most are of an average level of capable comparable to the general population and the ones who are not are probably only slightly higher in percentage than the number of those who are incapable across most age groups. 

chrisw

elsien said:

Betterthanlife said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

To confuse pensioners, apparently 

I'm not yet a pensioner, but I'm often confused anyway. 
Although as a side note, at what age are we now classifying people as pensionsers.
As a woman it would have been 60. Now it's 67. It may well change again in the future to an even older retirement age. Am I only allowed to play the age card when I hit that magic target? 

I took early retirement at 55 and receive a work pension. I'm a pensioner without most of the pensioner's benefits! 

EnPointe

MattMattMattUK said:

elsien said:

Betterthanlife said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

To confuse pensioners, apparently 

I'm not yet a pensioner, but I'm often confused anyway. 
Although as a side note, at what age are we now classifying people as pensionsers.
As a woman it would have been 60. Now it's 67. It may well change again in the future to an even older retirement age. Am I only allowed to play the age card when I hit that magic target? 

Pensioners I generally think of 70+ even though I know people do retire before that.

I do not understand the pensioners group as an automatic correlation with "mentally incapable", I know quite a lot of very capable pensioners, most are of an average level of capable comparable to the general population and the ones who are not are probably only slightly higher in percentage than the number of those who are incapable across most age groups. 

it's very much as view that   increasingly  approaching pension age itself  

20 -30 years ago  when things like  home broadband  and  everyone in the workplace from the  Warehouse cat to the CEO having a company email address  were rare , a lot of the arguments about  technology may have held some water, but  today's  80 year olds turned 65 in 2009 ... 

Exodi

born_again said:

Exodi said:

BoGoF said:

Exodi said:

Ectophile said:
pre-authorise £120 even if you only want half a tank of fuel.

In an ideal world they'd just charge people after for what they use and theft doesn't exist. But in reality there would be little stopping people pulling up in the middle of the night in vehicles with fake reg plates filling up a boot load of jerry cans at a few pumps and driving off. That's why we have pre-authorisation.

Only pre-authorising £1 when the customer could fill up £120 and flee is a risk to the retailer. Therefore some opt to remove that risk by pre-authorising a higher amount.

As someone that has family in France, I'm quite used to this. I also totally get why they would do that, I don't start jumping to conclusions about corporate 

That's not why we have pre-auth. It was imposed by visa/mastercard and nothing to do with thefts from petrol stations.

OK so what do you suggest it was introduced for then, if not to prevent theft?

Because Visa & Mastercard introduced this after consultation with retailer merchant banks, card providers & regulators. It also brings their UK & Europe regulations in line.
As someone else mentioned, to stop people spending more than they had available & incurring fee's. Then kicking off about being charged for their overspending. Blaming banks for not having a system in place to stop it.
Now there is, people still kick off.

Think it was back in 2018 when it was 1st introduced in UK (Europe had been going long before with no problems) People kicked off, media got involved & it was dropped. Only to be brought back a couple of years ago.

Can never please everyone 🤷‍♀️

I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just find it odd that people would kick off about the possibility of overspending at a fuel pump, but not, for example, at a restaurant or a barbers (or any other place where the product/service is also irretrievably administered before payment (though no doubt someone will mention the fuel could be siphoned so it's not 'irretrievable', you get the point)). I don't see anyone campaigning to have the most expensive meal + drink combo pre-authorised on their card on entry to a restaurant in case they don't know if they can afford their meal.

As you say, sometimes I think people just can't help complaining about anything.

Bigwheels1111

I have read threads like this for the last 6 years or so.
The first new report I can find is May 2018.
From memory it all started with a £99 charge way back when.
God help you all when we are forced into electric only cars.
You are pre authored for only £45 or £60 etc.
Then the charger does not work, onto the neighbouring charger and charged again.
What the hell that one will not charge, onto a third.
We will all need credit cards with a 5k limit for a £20 charge.
My friend waited 42 days and 60 days for pre authoring to drop off this card.
Two faulty charges in a row.
What fun is lurking round the corner.
I only use Costco pay at pump, with a credit card to avoid this issue.