Any Black Horse replies?

[Deleted User]

I think many of you are misinterpreting the stance on DCA. If the FCA decides the arrangements would likely be deemed unfair by a court under the CCA (as the initial FOS decisions did) then how it positively or negatively affected the agreement in £££s doesn’t really matter. There would be no good or bad DCAs, they would all be breaches of their existing rules and the CCA because they were differential and undisclosed. The inequality of knowledge between the lender and the consumer about the existence of the DCA arrangement would breach CCA s140 and the provision of differential commission would breach CONC 4.5.2 which has existed since 2014. This is what they are deciding on. CONC 4.5.2 states differential commission arrangements should only exist where it could be justified by extra work undertaken by the firm (car dealer in this instance). In terms of the CCA unfairness, that a dealer, not the lender / credit score, could decide the interest charged is a considerable inequality of knowledge that creates unfairness when the consumer is unaware of the arrangement as evidenced by numerous county court outcomes. It literally breaks the intrinsic link between credit score and interest rate, to quote the FCA paper on motor finance. If the FCA do decide this the compensation approach will not be on a £ to £ basis, it will most likely mimic what courts are awarding and what the FOS decisions detailed. Either refunding all the commission, or refunding the difference between the rate paid and the lowest rate available. This is punitive to the lender by design as they should not have created or allowed these arrangements at all. Even if the consumer ‘saved’ money through a ‘positive DCA’, however unlikely that may be, the compensation is punitive due to the nature of the arrangement so it would not matter. 

[Deleted User]

And do stop telling people that lenders can ‘do nothing’ with complaints until the review is over. The FCA is actively telling them to continue to investigate all complaints during their review. It’s on their latest statement clear as day. All they have done is extended the time they have to respond to complaints. It doesn’t mean they have to take that long, it’s not a target, if they can give an outcome sooner they should. 

April 24 FCA statement

As our review continues, firms should also: 

• Continue to investigate the complaints they receive involving a DCA.  This will help ensure firms are able to act promptly to resolve complaints if we decide the pause should be lifted and complaint handling should resume. Even if we decide that DCA complaints should be resolved through an alternative approach, it is highly likely that firms will need to take similar steps.

That is not an instruction to do nothing

[Deleted User]

In short OP, do keep pestering Blackhorse until they respond to you properly. They are notorious foot draggers, information hiders and unnecessary barrier creators. They want you to give up.

Nasqueron

[Deleted User] said:

And do stop telling people that lenders can ‘do nothing’ with complaints until the review is over. The FCA is actively telling them to continue to investigate all complaints during their review. It’s on their latest statement clear as day. All they have done is extended the time they have to respond to complaints. It doesn’t mean they have to take that long, it’s not a target, if they can give an outcome sooner they should. 

April 24 FCA statement

As our review continues, firms should also: 

• Continue to investigate the complaints they receive involving a DCA.  This will help ensure firms are able to act promptly to resolve complaints if we decide the pause should be lifted and complaint handling should resume. Even if we decide that DCA complaints should be resolved through an alternative approach, it is highly likely that firms will need to take similar steps.

That is not an instruction to do nothing

It also does not mean they actually need to do anything more than check if DCA was applied or not, because there is nothing else to do as the FCA may decide DCA was fine and then there is nothing else to do

Nasqueron

[Deleted User] said:

In short OP, do keep pestering Blackhorse until they respond to you properly. They are notorious foot draggers, information hiders and unnecessary barrier creators. They want you to give up.

This is simply factually wrong, pestering will achieve nothing as they will simply refer to the FCA pause. OP has a complaint logged, they cannot ignore it and hope OP gives up because that isn't how any of this works

[Deleted User]

CMCs make a living out of being professional pesterers because lenders need so much pestering. If they just did their job and responded to OPs enquiry, there wouldn’t be a question and less people would fall into the hands of CMCs through frustration. OP wants confirmation they have their complaint and a response about DCA, very reasonable imo. And believe me the foot dragging, unnecessary barriers thing is very very real. I have seen internal messages (sent in error on a cc / bcc) to that extent. FOS too acknowledged that lender’s requirements for ID and verification at multiple stages of a process (yes I know they have a right to ask but not 4 times in the same process!) is obstructive and deliberate.

Mickey_Bee

Received a letter from BH yesterday saying they couldn't find details of our agreement. They were given everything apart from the agreement number which we didn't have any documentation for. We contacted BH who were obviously blagging that they didn't have any details. The young lady said that they could put a request in to find the agreement, but it could take 30 days - that would take us over the 6 years document retention period .... hmmmm!
Desperate to find the agreement number from July 2018 we contacted our bank to see if they still had the direct debit details with the agreement reference on - 2 minutes later they found them - well done HSBC 👏. 
Another call to BH today will be made - let's see what they come up with!

Nasqueron

Mickey_Bee said:

Received a letter from BH yesterday saying they couldn't find details of our agreement. They were given everything apart from the agreement number which we didn't have any documentation for. We contacted BH who were obviously blagging that they didn't have any details. The young lady said that they could put a request in to find the agreement, but it could take 30 days - that would take us over the 6 years document retention period .... hmmmm!
Desperate to find the agreement number from July 2018 we contacted our bank to see if they still had the direct debit details with the agreement reference on - 2 minutes later they found them - well done HSBC 👏. 
Another call to BH today will be made - let's see what they come up with!

BH are not "obviously blagging" anything, if they can't find your data, they can't find it.

6 years is a guideline, it doesn't mean they just automatically delete stuff and proactively deleting data which is subject to a complaint would risk serious fines so they won't do it.

It's more than likely BH simply have closed agreements archived off somewhere and sorted by agreement number, they may well find it now you have the data. None of which means anything at the moment though due to the FCA review

AppleBlossom08

Mickey_Bee said:

Received a letter from BH yesterday saying they couldn't find details of our agreement. They were given everything apart from the agreement number which we didn't have any documentation for. We contacted BH who were obviously blagging that they didn't have any details. The young lady said that they could put a request in to find the agreement, but it could take 30 days - that would take us over the 6 years document retention period .... hmmmm!
Desperate to find the agreement number from July 2018 we contacted our bank to see if they still had the direct debit details with the agreement reference on - 2 minutes later they found them - well done HSBC 👏. 
Another call to BH today will be made - let's see what they come up with!

I just received a letter requesting further information as they couldn’t find a motor finance agreement that matched the information I provided. I provided all information they were asking for in this letter as part of my initial complaint. So agreement numbers, name, current and previous addresses etc. 
i double checked my agreement numbers with my bank and found a further two records I had not claimed for. 

So I called Black Horse, provided all four agreements numbers and somehow they managed to find the finance agreements for all four vehicles. 

My skeptic mind is telling me that this request for further information was a delay tactic. 

Nasqueron

AppleBlossom08 said:

Mickey_Bee said:

Received a letter from BH yesterday saying they couldn't find details of our agreement. They were given everything apart from the agreement number which we didn't have any documentation for. We contacted BH who were obviously blagging that they didn't have any details. The young lady said that they could put a request in to find the agreement, but it could take 30 days - that would take us over the 6 years document retention period .... hmmmm!
Desperate to find the agreement number from July 2018 we contacted our bank to see if they still had the direct debit details with the agreement reference on - 2 minutes later they found them - well done HSBC 👏. 
Another call to BH today will be made - let's see what they come up with!

I just received a letter requesting further information as they couldn’t find a motor finance agreement that matched the information I provided. I provided all information they were asking for in this letter as part of my initial complaint. So agreement numbers, name, current and previous addresses etc. 
i double checked my agreement numbers with my bank and found a further two records I had not claimed for. 

So I called Black Horse, provided all four agreements numbers and somehow they managed to find the finance agreements for all four vehicles. 

My skeptic mind is telling me that this request for further information was a delay tactic. 

Again there is no "delaying tactic" as there is nothing to delay. 

Once the FCA review is finished, then they will decide if any repayment is due or not, what level etc. It could still be £0. There is literally no point in them delaying anything because it's not up to them - if the FCA says everyone who had DCA should be refunded £100, for example, that is what will happen. If the FCA says it was not miss-sold then nothing will happen. If they say it was, they might be told to proactively contact people. No-one knows. Wait until after September (or maybe even 2025)