Upgrade old Night storage heaters, come off E7 and get "German" electric storage, or back to Gas

Newbie_John

Gerry1 said:

@Newbie_John You can't heat a house with simple electric fans.  They only move air around.

Sorry, I meant simple electric fan heater 2kW 

Gerry1

@Newbie_John 2kW fan heaters may be cheap to buy but as they use daytime electricity it's very unlikely that they'll be cheap to run.

Even worse, you'll probably find that they're not supposed to be run from timers or smart sockets.  If the motor fails, the fan gets stuck or if paper or an item of something falls on it and obstructs the airflow there's a thermally latching cut-out that will switch off the heating elements until the device is left unplugged for 15 minutes.

However, switching off your smart socket will reset the cut-out.  If switched on again remotely the repeated overheating is a serious fire risk.

Fan heaters can be useful for occasional spot heating where there's no CH, e.g. in a shed, garage or outbuilding but they're not suitable for heating a property full time.

Newbie_John

@Gerry1, ok thanks - I'll replace them - they've been run them semi-attended, if I know I will be home at 19:30, I would set it 19-20.

Of the other type of electric heaters - oil radiator, convector heater etc. 
What would you say is safest with smart plugs?

Regarding costs, yeah they're not cheap to run, but if I only need them to be on for short period of time - they're cheaper than storage heaters - 2h at 28p vs 6h at 15p (plus heat loss during the day).

Gerry1

An oil filled radiator is probably the safest, no  problems if it gets knocked over, no grilles to get blocked.

However, your comparison with NSHs may not be valid, they probably won't charge for six hours unless the weather is very cold or you like it really tropical.  With modern High Heat Retention NSHs there won't be much heat loss during the day because the fan won't be running.

Of course there are lots of variables, notably how long you stay in the property, but heating a house with resistive electrical heaters at daytime rates (even with Agile or Tracker) doesn't sound a very cost-effective option.

MattNev

Many thanks for the input.
Im very glad I didn't fall for the pressure sell of the "German" heater companies.
I will wait for a few quotes for putting a Boiler back in but I think from this I am leaning towards an upgrade of my old Night storage heaters with modern, well insulated WIFI versions for the main living space and hallway then get some WIFI system compatible wall mounted convection radiators for the two bedrooms.
Regarding E7 or fixed low rate, I think I will keep on Octopus E7 for now, monitor my day and night usage over the next 6 months or so then decide whether it is worth moving to a cheaper flat rate or on Octopus Agile.  I guess I can do washing over night but one big expense would be cooking, and all the other evening activities that use electricity.  I cant judge at this point what that would be.

GibbsRule_No3.

My HA installed the Quantum Dimplex RF (no remote hub installed by them but assume I could buy one myself)  a few weeks ago and I will admit I was against the idea as my old storage heaters did give out nice heat, but the control I have with these new ones is very useful. Setting each NSH to when it comes on and off and the temperature. I work two days a week, so don't need them on as long. My bungalow is still as warm as before, hard to tell if it is cheaper to run or not with rises in prices. Guess next February will tell. Boost option if there is a cold spell when I don't have them on much, say April/May will be handy, yes a bit more expensive than having them on overnight.

MattNev

Is there a way of sharing a PDF on this site.  I just had an interesting Elkatherm presentation PDF emailed to me with some very compelling stats. I have also had a decent Quote from Sunflow for 4 of their Non-night storage radiators from their new cheaper Elements range of £3477.  This is a self install price (they charge about £1000 to install and take away old NSHs).  This is still ~£1000 more expensive than going for new NSHs of course but better than the £5500 from Elkatherm or others.  Still not convinced, but the gap is closer and they are significantly slimmer and better looking than NSHs.

Gerry1

Are you seriously considering devices that cost a fortune to buy and cost a fortune to run because they use daytime electricity?  Just because they look nice?

MattNev

  Gerry1, No.  But you can't ignore the aethetic, if one is that way inclined, especially when doing a complete refurb. I will not be alone in that.  As I said, Im still not decided and am not about to be conned into a falsely advertised system.  However, what will be the advantage of NSHs if I end up going on a flat day rate because I decide after all my evening and weekend electricity usage at peat rate economy 7 tarif I decide a lower fixed rate works out the same out cheaper overall. I just don't know yet, and arguments at present seem to be bias in both directions.

Just a Newbie opinion, entering this debate for the first time

Gerry1

Assuming that a heat pump, oil, LPG etc aren't realistic, all that's is left is gas or NSHs.  You might even find that doing nothing is a cost-effective option (keeping the old style NSHs) if you can find a suitable E7 tariff.

However, it's quite understandable to upgrade them as part of a refurb so Dimplex Quantums or suchlike would be a good choice.  Best for each to have E7 and 24h circuits and at least one E7 spur to have a neon indicator.

Personally I'd invest in gas central heating with wet radiators to get the lowest running costs and the best controllability.  GCH will also make the property easier and quicker to sell and get a better price.

However, if you go for electric heating, don't use any non-storage heaters except possibly in bedrooms and bathrooms.  It's unlikely that a single rate tariff will be cheaper.