Are sellers allowed to request a parcel be returned before delivery?

MattMattMattUK

Aylesbury_Duck said:

phdwho said:

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Yes, of course.

They might not be able to act on that request though, UPS (I use them for work) cannot redirect a consignment once a return has been started, equally neither can Royal Mail do anything other than return to sender unless there is a formal redirect in place for that address. Courier systems are very process driven and quite inflexible, unfortunately they have to be to deal with the volumes they handle, every element of flexibility introduced is another potential point of failure. I am sure the supplier can ask, but I suspect that the answer would be no. 

phdwho

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

phdwho said:

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Yes, of course.

They might not be able to act on that request though, UPS (I use them for work) cannot redirect a consignment once a return has been started, equally neither can Royal Mail do anything other than return to sender unless there is a formal redirect in place for that address. Courier systems are very process driven and quite inflexible, unfortunately they have to be to deal with the volumes they handle, every element of flexibility introduced is another potential point of failure. I am sure the supplier can ask, but I suspect that the answer would be no. 

The tracking data that i'm seeing from parcelhub/whistl (not yodel, they are crap) is utterly bonkers. It was marked for return, then assigned to customer services, then marked for return, then on saturday out for delivery, then returned to sender (but marked Bristol MIV, whatever that is, it's not Zatu games they aren't in Bristol anyway). Who knows where it will be tomorrow! The world's most travelled board game

phdwho

Alderbank said:

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

Ok, that begs the question what is considered reasonable before I can expect a refund or replacement? I honestly don't see how dragging this out benefits them. They can see the item has gone walkabout and is being returned to them, so they can just send me a repalcement and keep whatever they get back. If it's fit for sale then they can sell it on as normal. If not then it's no good to me anyway. This is all such silly nonsense

MattMattMattUK

phdwho said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

phdwho said:

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Yes, of course.

They might not be able to act on that request though, UPS (I use them for work) cannot redirect a consignment once a return has been started, equally neither can Royal Mail do anything other than return to sender unless there is a formal redirect in place for that address. Courier systems are very process driven and quite inflexible, unfortunately they have to be to deal with the volumes they handle, every element of flexibility introduced is another potential point of failure. I am sure the supplier can ask, but I suspect that the answer would be no. 

The tracking data that i'm seeing from parcelhub/whistl (not yodel, they are crap) is utterly bonkers. It was marked for return, then assigned to customer services, then marked for return, then on saturday out for delivery, then returned to sender (but marked Bristol MIV, whatever that is, it's not Zatu games they aren't in Bristol anyway). Who knows where it will be tomorrow! The world's most travelled board game

Parcelhub/Whistl are not an actual courier though, their tracking system is just trying to approximate what is in the Yodel system. The Yodel tracking is what will actually show anything useful, if there is any useful detail in their system in the first place. That is before you even get into virtual vs physical scans on consignments. 

phdwho said:

Alderbank said:

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

Ok, that begs the question what is considered reasonable before I can expect a refund or replacement? I honestly don't see how dragging this out benefits them. They can see the item has gone walkabout and is being returned to them, so they can just send me a repalcement and keep whatever they get back. If it's fit for sale then they can sell it on as normal. If not then it's no good to me anyway. This is all such silly nonsense

A few days usually, up to a week if the consignment was still showing as out to delivery to you, if it changed to having shown as delivered to you then I would suspect it might take longer to resolve. I really do not see that they are "dragging this out", it has been a few working days at most.

You seem to want to make far more out of this than it actually is, it is not a conspiracy, it is not a catastrophe, it is a minor courier issue with an order and it will get resolved in a few days. 

phdwho

MattMattMattUK said:

phdwho said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

phdwho said:

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Yes, of course.

They might not be able to act on that request though, UPS (I use them for work) cannot redirect a consignment once a return has been started, equally neither can Royal Mail do anything other than return to sender unless there is a formal redirect in place for that address. Courier systems are very process driven and quite inflexible, unfortunately they have to be to deal with the volumes they handle, every element of flexibility introduced is another potential point of failure. I am sure the supplier can ask, but I suspect that the answer would be no. 

The tracking data that i'm seeing from parcelhub/whistl (not yodel, they are crap) is utterly bonkers. It was marked for return, then assigned to customer services, then marked for return, then on saturday out for delivery, then returned to sender (but marked Bristol MIV, whatever that is, it's not Zatu games they aren't in Bristol anyway). Who knows where it will be tomorrow! The world's most travelled board game

Parcelhub/Whistl are not an actual courier though, their tracking system is just trying to approximate what is in the Yodel system. The Yodel tracking is what will actually show anything useful, if there is any useful detail in their system in the first place. That is before you even get into virtual vs physical scans on consignments. 

phdwho said:

Alderbank said:

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

Ok, that begs the question what is considered reasonable before I can expect a refund or replacement? I honestly don't see how dragging this out benefits them. They can see the item has gone walkabout and is being returned to them, so they can just send me a repalcement and keep whatever they get back. If it's fit for sale then they can sell it on as normal. If not then it's no good to me anyway. This is all such silly nonsense

A few days usually, up to a week if the consignment was still showing as out to delivery to you, if it changed to having shown as delivered to you then I would suspect it might take longer to resolve. I really do not see that they are "dragging this out", it has been a few working days at most.

You seem to want to make far more out of this than it actually is, it is not a conspiracy, it is not a catastrophe, it is a minor courier issue with an order and it will get resolved in a few days. 

It's been a few days. During which I was promised a replacement that never happened, I consider that to be unacceptable practice. But I don't know how long it will take. They said up to two weeks, which is christmas day. A few days, which it has already been, would be fine because it would have been resolved by now. But they can't and won't promise that. They just keep saying 'we have to investigate' with no clear timeline. So yes, it is being dragged out. 

What I want to make out of this is a simple resolution, such as the one I was promised. You don't know whether or how it will get resolved in a few days, neither do I, and, more importanlty, neither does the seller who have already made promises and broken them. Now, you might be comfortable with that, I am not. That doesn't mean I view this as a conspiracy, though it's quite clear Yodel are not remotely on top of the situation. Even if this does arrive there's no guarantee it will be in appropriate condition as we still don't know why it was marked for return. Seems a very strange error to make.

RefluentBeans

When dealing with the retailer, it is better to keep it simple, and factual. Rather than filling in what may (or may not) have happened. 

If they can see from their tracking it is on its way back to them, insist on a replacement being sent out. Make it very clear it’s for a Christmas present and it can’t wait for that ‘investigation’ to be completed but you promise that if two turn up you’ll send one back. 

Don’t get into the nitty gritty with them about the logistics of Yodel and Whistl. It’s just going to muddy the water. Clear cut and dry - you paid for NDD, when are they going to get the parcel to you. Keep it that simple. 

phdwho

RefluentBeans said:

When dealing with the retailer, it is better to keep it simple, and factual. Rather than filling in what may (or may not) have happened. 

If they can see from their tracking it is on its way back to them, insist on a replacement being sent out. Make it very clear it’s for a Christmas present and it can’t wait for that ‘investigation’ to be completed but you promise that if two turn up you’ll send one back. 

Don’t get into the nitty gritty with them about the logistics of Yodel and Whistl. It’s just going to muddy the water. Clear cut and dry - you paid for NDD, when are they going to get the parcel to you. Keep it that simple. 

While I appreciate the advice, I have to point out that much of this I have already tried and it's falling on deaf ears. That's what I'm trying to convey. I don't know what the seller can see from their tracking, it must be the same as me, but it's not making any difference. They insist on doing nothing until their investigation is complete. To that end they tell me they have yet to hear back from Yodel and won't act until then, and even that will depend on whatever Yodel tells them. Frankly, given what Yodel have told me, I haven't much confidence it will help because they don't seem to know what's what here. They seem to be under the impression Whistl has asked for the return because that is who they keep calling the seller.

I have told them it's a Christmas present, i keep telling them this. It cuts no ice. They insist on their investigation. So we are at an empasse about which I can do nothing. I can't force the issue. I appreciate the response, and I hope people understand what I'm trying to say here. Their investigation seems entirely contingent on hearing back, satisfactorily, from Yodel, and until then they will do nothing.

phdwho

Just a quick update. They emailed me this afternoon apologising and offering a replacement. I rang them a couple of hours later to confirm this would be going ahead.

It hasn't. They lied again. At the time of writing no receipt, proof of postage or tracking info has been received and by now it would have. So unless my email has been caught in a timewarp I've been lied to for the second time and remain out of pocket. 

I guess we'll just have to hope Amazon Pay comes through. Hopefully I can make a claim with prejudice and Amazon can hit them with a significant financial penalty. What a rotten shame

powerful_Rogue

phdwho said:

Just a quick update. They emailed me this afternoon apologising and offering a replacement. I rang them a couple of hours later to confirm this would be going ahead.

It hasn't. They lied again. At the time of writing no receipt, proof of postage or tracking info has been received and by now it would have. So unless my email has been caught in a timewarp I've been lied to for the second time and remain out of pocket. 

I guess we'll just have to hope Amazon Pay comes through. Hopefully I can make a claim with prejudice and Amazon can hit them with a significant financial penalty. What a rotten shame

You're thinking far too much into this.

No, Amazon won't 'hit them with a significant financial penalty'.

sheramber

Saying a replacement will be issued does not mean someone will parcel it up and run down to the courier office with it  immediately.

More likely it has been passed for action, possibly tomorrow, since it was only agreed this afternoon.