Are sellers allowed to request a parcel be returned before delivery?

phdwho

Following on from my wayward boardgame/courier adventure, what are my rights as per the following situation:

Before the seller decides to replace/refund they are saying they need to complete, to their satisfaction, an investigation with the courier. However long that might take. Is this their right under law? If so, is there a time limit?

I have spoken to the courier and received, according to them, an outcome as to their own internal investigation. This i have forwarded to the seller, but they insist on completing their own investigation. I have no idea what that involves, how that would differ, or how long that can take. 

What are my rights here? Thanks

user1977

phdwho said:

MattMattMattUK said:

phdwho said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

phdwho said:

Entirely possible and I have contacted them. But I thought it wasn't allowed to do this? Once something gets posted, isn't that too late?

To correct a mistake?

No.

If you've ordered a tablecloth and they've sent you a hamster, they won't just ignore it 

Unless the package is obvious (hamster trying to chew its way free) then how would the courier know? 

The courier will often be able to cancel a delivery before delivery. Couriers will also sometimes return packages which are particularly damaged and/or leaking (of course other times they will deliver an empty, torn open box). It does not make sense that you appear to be so confused by the possibility of a delivery being cancelled.

phdwho said:

powerful_Rogue said:

My guess is that you purchased at a super cheap price.

It was reduced in price, according to the listing. I should check to see if that listing is still available. If that's the case, it surely bolsters the argument agianst sellers calling back orders. That's super unethical. Be that as it may, they offered to ship a replacement, as I said. Perhaps that's why they never followed through. It's possible I guess, but then all the more reason to just refund me which was what I asked when I rang them up to tell them the delivery had gone awry.

No, it does not. You seem to be trying to synthesise some kind of conspiracy when there is unlikely to be one. 

RefluentBeans said:

phdwho said:

powerful_Rogue said:

My guess is that you purchased at a super cheap price.

It was reduced in price, according to the listing. I should check to see if that listing is still available. If that's the case, it surely bolsters the argument agianst sellers calling back orders. That's super unethical. Be that as it may, they offered to ship a replacement, as I said. Perhaps that's why they never followed through. It's possible I guess, but then all the more reason to just refund me which was what I asked when I rang them up to tell them the delivery had gone awry.

But you said the retailer claims they are unaware of this happening? Does this not make you think maybe, just maybe, the retailer is unaware and that it’s the courier that have unilaterally decided to return the item either because it’s damaged (either by them or entered the network damaged); or for some other reason (like the postage label becoming unreadable). 

I don’t think we should always take that companies will do the right thing always, but I doubt there’s a conspiracy to deprive you of a board game, even if it was reduced. If the price was stupidly cheap, and it was missed, I genuinely don’t think a company would go to the effort of recalling the board game. Maybe for something else like a £5000 computer being sold for £1 or something, but for a board game, even if it was basically given away for free, it wouldn’t be worth the hassle. 

Of course if you paid for next day delivery you should get a refund, and if they have the game still in stock you should ask for them to send a copy of the game out to you again (assuming you want it). But I genuinely doubt there’s a conspiracy against you. 

Unfortunately if they dont tell the truth then the retailer won't be able to process a replacement/refund until that parcel returns.

There is nothing preventing the retailer from sending out another item now, given they know the original parcel isn't going to be delivered to you for whatever reason.

Alderbank

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

DullGreyGuy

user1977 said:

phdwho said:

MattMattMattUK said:

phdwho said:

MorningcoffeeIV said:

phdwho said:

Entirely possible and I have contacted them. But I thought it wasn't allowed to do this? Once something gets posted, isn't that too late?

To correct a mistake?

No.

If you've ordered a tablecloth and they've sent you a hamster, they won't just ignore it 

Unless the package is obvious (hamster trying to chew its way free) then how would the courier know? 

The courier will often be able to cancel a delivery before delivery. Couriers will also sometimes return packages which are particularly damaged and/or leaking (of course other times they will deliver an empty, torn open box). It does not make sense that you appear to be so confused by the possibility of a delivery being cancelled.

phdwho said:

powerful_Rogue said:

My guess is that you purchased at a super cheap price.

It was reduced in price, according to the listing. I should check to see if that listing is still available. If that's the case, it surely bolsters the argument agianst sellers calling back orders. That's super unethical. Be that as it may, they offered to ship a replacement, as I said. Perhaps that's why they never followed through. It's possible I guess, but then all the more reason to just refund me which was what I asked when I rang them up to tell them the delivery had gone awry.

No, it does not. You seem to be trying to synthesise some kind of conspiracy when there is unlikely to be one. 

RefluentBeans said:

phdwho said:

powerful_Rogue said:

My guess is that you purchased at a super cheap price.

It was reduced in price, according to the listing. I should check to see if that listing is still available. If that's the case, it surely bolsters the argument agianst sellers calling back orders. That's super unethical. Be that as it may, they offered to ship a replacement, as I said. Perhaps that's why they never followed through. It's possible I guess, but then all the more reason to just refund me which was what I asked when I rang them up to tell them the delivery had gone awry.

But you said the retailer claims they are unaware of this happening? Does this not make you think maybe, just maybe, the retailer is unaware and that it’s the courier that have unilaterally decided to return the item either because it’s damaged (either by them or entered the network damaged); or for some other reason (like the postage label becoming unreadable). 

I don’t think we should always take that companies will do the right thing always, but I doubt there’s a conspiracy to deprive you of a board game, even if it was reduced. If the price was stupidly cheap, and it was missed, I genuinely don’t think a company would go to the effort of recalling the board game. Maybe for something else like a £5000 computer being sold for £1 or something, but for a board game, even if it was basically given away for free, it wouldn’t be worth the hassle. 

Of course if you paid for next day delivery you should get a refund, and if they have the game still in stock you should ask for them to send a copy of the game out to you again (assuming you want it). But I genuinely doubt there’s a conspiracy against you. 

Unfortunately if they dont tell the truth then the retailer won't be able to process a replacement/refund until that parcel returns.

There is nothing preventing the retailer from sending out another item now, given they know the original parcel isn't going to be delivered to you for whatever reason.

The question is are they required to rather than if anything is stopping them. 

As we all know, when you see the tracking on the courier say there's a problem you'd think you could claim on their insurance but of cause then the tracking becomes a guide and you have to wait for them to complete their investigation before you receive your monies back. Inevitably the retailer would rather know they are getting their money back for the first before sending the second. It wouldn't be the first time a courier claims the tracking was wrong and actually it was delivered and so no refund.

phdwho

Alderbank said:

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

So they can just keep investigating ad infinitum and i, the customer, get nothing? Is that legal?

MattMattMattUK

phdwho said:

Alderbank said:

There are no time limits for their investigation.
That makes sense.

Because there is no defined time limit the default position is that it must be 'reasonable'.

So they can just keep investigating ad infinitum and i, the customer, get nothing? Is that legal?

They cannot, because that would not be deemed "reasonable". Likely they are going to wait for the courier to email them directly, rather than something forwarded from you, which could be entirely fabricated. Someone then needs to check that against your order and either issue a refund, or resend the consignment.

Why are you continually looking for the worst case scenario and trying to find some conspiracy in whatever happens, rather than acknowledging what is a mistake and a perfectly reasonable way for a company to operate? 

phdwho

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Jenni_D

You can ask - nothing stopping you. Doesn't mean they'll agree.

Aylesbury_Duck

phdwho said:

Can a seller ask for a return made in error (as Yodel now claim has happened) to be redirected to its intended recipient? 

Yes, of course.

phdwho

Alderbank said:

You are obsessing about B2B issues between the seller and the byzantine maze of subcontracts which the seller has taken on to get the goods to you. This isn't helping you or your case.

You have no consumer rights around how the seller chooses to get your game to you. Your consumer rights say only that the seller must get the goods into your physical possession in reasonable time. Nothing about how they have to do it.

Stay focussed with the seller on that, and that only.  

Unfortunately nothing seems to be helping my case. The seller is refusing to do anything, including fulfill their own promises to replace the item, until their own investigation is satisfied. I have no idea what that means, how long it will take, nor what it requires even though I have forwarded Yodel emails explaining what happened (they say) to the seller.

So what do you suggest i do other than wait and hope that the seller decides to act sooner rather than later? I don't care how they get my game to me, I care that they do. 

RefluentBeans said:

Alderbank said:

You are obsessing about B2B issues between the seller and the byzantine maze of subcontracts which the seller has taken on to get the goods to you. This isn't helping you or your case.

You have no consumer rights around how the seller chooses to get your game to you. Your consumer rights say only that the seller must get the goods into your physical possession in reasonable time. Nothing about how they have to do it.

Stay focussed with the seller on that, and that only.  

100% agree with this. The rest are just technicalities. Personally I would go to the company who sold it to you and say it appears to be on the way back to them, can they send another one out to ensure it’s here for Xmas etc (assuming it’s a Christmas present). And again, if you paid for NDD, then request that is refunded as they haven’t fulfilled that. 

I have done this. I've spent a great deal of time trying to appeal to the seller. I haven't only spoken to Yodel at all. I asked them to do just as you asked. In fact they offered to do that on Friday and then didn't nor did they explain why or tell me they couldn't. I spoke with them again at length this morning and, as i've said above, they are refusing to do anything in lieu of their investigation. Assuming even that is honest. I told them it needed to arrive by xmas. All of this I have done, and unfortuantely to no avail. They don't even listen to what Yodel have said that I have forwarded to them, in the hope it would aid their investigation. Sadly, it has not. I've no idea how long this would take.

I even asked on here separately about what my rights are in this situation and how long I have to givem for such ain investigation, but it was removed.

If you have any suggestions as to how to proceed further, then by all means! I am out of ideas at this point

ElefantEd said:

Yes, although Zatu have a poor reputation when it comes to pre-orders, for items they have in stock they seem fine, and deal with issues reasonably well. I would definitely contact them. Their free shipping threshold is very low, I seem to recall, which is why they use Yodel, the cheapest (and arguably worst) of the delivery companies.

Good choice of game though, Apiary arrived for me the other day (from BoardgameHut, they had a very good deal last week), it has been stashed awaiting Christmas.

The item was in stock as they sent it (or something at least!) out. But yes, Yodel are dreadful and I won't touch them again