Warning! Accused of leaving driver awareness course early! You can avoid this! Use this simple tip

WEASELL

Grumpy_chap said:

WEASELL said:

The camera in question is a ‘ tourist trap’ in Bournemouth. it literally traps people from all over the UK and the course leader actually mentioned people joining other courses from abroad.
It’s the main duel carriage way and there is a sudden change from 50 to 40 I didn’t observe. I did think I was driving at the correct speed. ( please people no need to post to tell me how deserving of this £230 +plus punishment I am).

I post a photo showing over nine thousand people were punished by my camera last year. There are speed camera signs everywhere. I am certain missed that essential sign just like me.

Assuming the camera you refer to is the second in that list (A338 Wessex Way to Dean Park, Bournemouth, West bound) then the 9,000 NIPs are over three years and not one year, as the question says "combined three-year period 2020, 2021, and 2022".  It is impossible from that data to say how many were in each year.

Excellent attention to detail that I had missed!
I wouldn’t want to accuse someone of something they didn’t do.
Even if it is becoming fashionable.

WEASELL

user1977 said:

bluelad1927 said:

Maybe change the title of this thread to

"WARNING do no attend driver awareness course whil sat in back seat of car outside friends house using dodgy WiFi connection"

Not sure who you are warning as I for one don't know of anybody who would consider doing such a thing

Especially when you have the option of doing it inside friend’s house, but for reasons unknown decide not to do so…

I have just read back through the forum, and realise I missed responding to you, apologies, You raise a valid point.

My decision must look strange, and given the amazing support and help,I have received from this forum, I think I should explain.Please remember I had no Wi-Fi of my own.

In the last few years I have been involved in the world of dementia, and have acquired far more information that I would have liked to have.

One behaviour of dementia that can be almost diagnostic, are accusations of stealing.

The ladies often prefer rings or jewellery, and the gents sometimes opt for tools, but there are no hard and fast rules. 

You can explain to someone that if the neighbours had broken in to the house to steal,  their pants/ knickers are unlikely to be the item the neighbour/ burglars would desire. But logic plays no part in a damaged brain.

In addition to this when all my friends contact me at the moment they always seem to have lost something, keys? Vouchers, all manner of things.

So this background coupled with an annoying trait of risk assessing things, i had I thought about what if my friend goes to her second knicker drawer next year and aunt Gertie’s emerald broach has gone? My friend would never accuse me, but would the thought go through her head  ‘what if ‘???

Anyway she only lives a few doors down so I came up with the idea of using my iPad in the car, while she was out. The position put me far closer to the router than many rooms in the house.

If I had needed a wee I could easily popped back home in the break. At this point I most likely need to say ‘ no I didn’t need a wee, and no I wasn’t late back onto the course because of the wee I didn’t have’.

Obviously some people feel I disrespected the course and so deserve everything I get and I understand their feeling.

 But also I think we all need to realise that poor people drive too. Many of them are not in a position to do this training sitting on the chesterfield in their well organised study.

I have a particular soft spot for the drivers who deliver everyone’s take away dinners, you see them in the queue, and outside the rain is driving down, it cold it’s horrible and I bet they earn tuppence! I bet they come up with more imaginative ways of doing the course than me.

I need to add my friend doesn’t have dementia or she will never forgive me!

WEASELL

It seems Bournemouth is famous for its speed cameras!

This was July 2022

LightFlare

One of the “problems” with average speed cameras is that some (?a lot) don’t actually understand the concept of average

I would imagine that there are occasions when tech fails - but actually proving it in court is not an easy (or cheap) prospect, so most people will take the penalty rather than challenge and undoubtedly some innocent people will get caught up in the system.

Not really sure what the answer to achieve a 100% foolproof system is - cars automatically limiting themselves due to some electronic signal perhaps …..

LightFlare

Grumpy_chap said:

LightFlare said:

WEASELL said:

LightFlare said:

WEASELL said:

you offer good advice.

The camera in question is a ‘ tourist trap’ in Bournemouth. it literally traps people from all over the UK and the course leader actually mentioned people joining other courses from abroad.
It’s the main duel carriage way and there is a sudden change from 50 to 40 I didn’t observe. I did think I was driving at the correct speed. ( please people no need to post to tell me how deserving of this £230 +plus punishment I am).

I post a photo showing over nine thousand people were punished by my camera last year. There are speed camera signs everywhere. I am certain missed that essential sign just like me.

Do you mean attending courses remotely while on holiday or none UK residents ?

If the 2nd - I would seriously question the accuracy of that

I am sorry I don’t know. I don’t remember the course tutor telling us that detail.

I can maybe understand why they were of the opinion that you weren't 100% engaged

I think the OP is saying they can't recall as to whether the Tutor specified people attending while on holiday or whether non-UK residents.

The OP recalls "the course leader actually mentioned people joining other courses from abroad."
It is quite likely that the detail of holiday or non-UK was never shared.  Hence why the OP does not know "I don’t remember the course tutor telling us that detail".  If the detail was not advised, the OP cannot recall it.

Already acknowledged and apologised a couple of posts before yours.

But yes - I missread/miss interpreted the OPs comment

force_ten1

WEASELL said:

force_ten1 said:

WEASELL said:

So let’s loop back to the start and the whole point of this post.

Tell your friends to take screenshots towards the end of online training or this could be them.

you have clearly stated that "There is other evidence I was there to the end, but there was no interest in them hearing it at all." so if they are not interested in the evidence you have to prove you were there then what's the point of screenshots? 

Thank you for your intellegent thinking.
With the screen shots I would have reported the Dorset police to Action fraud.
It would more than likely have been a waste of time, but its my time, and I would have liked that opportunity.

well it appears that the problem is the amount of times your connection dropped out and every time it did that would be recorded as you leaving the meeting so the fact that you were there at the end of the meeting is totally irrelevant as it seems that you failed the course when you were recorded leaving the meeting due to connection drop outs  

WEASELL

force_ten1 said:

WEASELL said:

force_ten1 said:

WEASELL said:

So let’s loop back to the start and the whole point of this post.

Tell your friends to take screenshots towards the end of online training or this could be them.

you have clearly stated that "There is other evidence I was there to the end, but there was no interest in them hearing it at all." so if they are not interested in the evidence you have to prove you were there then what's the point of screenshots? 

Thank you for your intellegent thinking.
With the screen shots I would have reported the Dorset police to Action fraud.
It would more than likely have been a waste of time, but its my time, and I would have liked that opportunity.

well it appears that the problem is the amount of times your connection dropped out and every time it did that would be recorded as you leaving the meeting so the fact that you were there at the end of the meeting is totally irrelevant as it seems that you failed the course when you were recorded leaving the meeting due to connection drop outs  

You make a very good observation of the situation.

I have applied for information and  I cut and paste below. But I think I will most likely time out before the information becomes available. 

Also if I was the boss I might be tempted to say to Joe in the ticket office ‘ have a coffee and Kit Kat! No rush to return this information!
I only have four weeks from when the letter saying I was receiving £100 fine and three points was send by them.

Hi,

I applied to the office of the police and crime commission for information but they have suggested that I email you instead.

I request the following information.

The first questions will most likely need to go the GOTO , who host the webinar. The date in question would be the 12th October 2023. The training started at 8.10am.

1 I would like analysis of the event log on the system that tracks webinar/connection activity. Please identify the users, and when (times) they were on and off the seminar. And detailing any connections dropped our (lost), reconnected, and other statuses and showing which users these statuses were associated with.

2 I would like a GOTO attendee report.

3 I would like a questions and answers report. Detailing the questions, who asked them and the time of these

4 I would like details of the feedback form I submitted, preferably a copy. Most important, I want to know what time the form was received.

From Dorset police I would like the following question answered please.

5 In the last 12 months please can you tell me the number of people who attended the driver awareness training, and then went on to still require to pay the £100? I will also require the total number of people who attended the training in the same period, to compare the figures

The correct email address was :

driver-awareness-sch@dorset.pnn.police.uk

eskbanker

WEASELL said:

1 I would like analysis of the event log on the system that tracks webinar/connection activity. Please identify the users, and when (times) they were on and off the seminar. And detailing any connections dropped our (lost), reconnected, and other statuses and showing which users these statuses were associated with.

2 I would like a GOTO attendee report.

3 I would like a questions and answers report. Detailing the questions, who asked them and the time of these

Not sure why you're so keen to get hold of information relating to other people, but chances are they'd be in breach of the Data Protection Act if they were disclose this to you, so they're likely to refuse - if anonymised data would have sufficed then you could perhaps have sought that, but I doubt they'll volunteer that....

WEASELL

eskbanker said:

WEASELL said:

1 I would like analysis of the event log on the system that tracks webinar/connection activity. Please identify the users, and when (times) they were on and off the seminar. And detailing any connections dropped our (lost), reconnected, and other statuses and showing which users these statuses were associated with.

2 I would like a GOTO attendee report.

3 I would like a questions and answers report. Detailing the questions, who asked them and the time of these

Not sure why you're so keen to get hold of information relating to other people, but chances are they'd be in breach of the Data Protection Act if they were disclose this to you, so they're likely to refuse - if anonymised data would have sufficed then you could perhaps have sought that, but I doubt they'll volunteer that....

eskbanker said:

WEASELL said:

1 I would like analysis of the event log on the system that tracks webinar/connection activity. Please identify the users, and when (times) they were on and off the seminar. And detailing any connections dropped our (lost), reconnected, and other statuses and showing which users these statuses were associated with.

2 I would like a GOTO attendee report.

3 I would like a questions and answers report. Detailing the questions, who asked them and the time of these

Not sure why you're so keen to get hold of information relating to other people, but chances are they'd be in breach of the Data Protection Act if they were disclose this to you, so they're likely to refuse - if anonymised data would have sufficed then you could perhaps have sought that, but I doubt they'll volunteer that....

Yes, now you mention it that seems very likely!

i actually can’t claim credit for the question! Someone suggested it. Everyone has been so generous with ideas and suggestions of how to proceed.

Okell

@WEASELL -  if you were experiencing problems with your link dropping out, didn't the person leading the course at least warn you that this was going to cause you problems and that you would probably be failed if you didn't rectify it?

I don't know how Dorset organise it but I had to do a NDORS speed awareness course last month.  A couple of participants dropped out on a couple of occasions and the course leader was very quick to question them as to what had happened and warned them that they needed to keep engaged with the course.  He also made sure that everybody was actively participating by ensuring that everybody was involved.  But I think there were only six of us in total (excluding the course leader) so it was easy for the course leader to monitor everybody's participation.

I also had a nightmare logging into the session as although I could see and hear everybody else, they could only hear me but couldn't see me.  I had to resort to my wife's laptop after the course leader told me I'd be failed as not attending if I couldn't fix the video issue within five minutes.  Fortunately it worked - otherwise I'd have had to rebook a course*.

Two other points; first, where I live you can only do an online course.  In person face to face courses in a "classroom" don't appear to be available.

Second, I don't think taking any sort of screenshot (or series of screenshots) of the course being delivered would necessarily provide evidence that you had successfully completed the course.  How could they?


*Presumably you've run out of time to re-book?  Were there no earlier courses available?  When I booked mine I was given a choice of dates for the following week(!).