Wrong name on NIP

sevenhills

TooManyPoints said:

I indent to tell them that I wasn't driving the vehicle at the time of the offence, it was parked near my home.

How can you be certain of this? The only mention you have made of the time is this:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

You have assumed that the vehicle was parked near your home. How reliable is that assumption? What is the relationship between you finishing work and your vehicle being parked at home? Do you know where the location mentioned is? Do you recall driving past that point any time on that day? Have you asked for photographs as I suggested earlier? Lastly, how long ago was this alleged offence said to have taken place?

I'm asking these questions because you have to use "reasonable diligence" to establish who was driving. All you have done so far (apart from disputing whether the notices are really for you or not) is to assume your car was at home at the time. I'm not trying to start any arguments; I'm simply trying to make sure you are doing the right thing. At the moment I'm not at all convinced that you are.

I am assuming that my vehicle did commit an offense, but not at the time stated, but I cannot truthfully say that I committed an offense at 5.39 pm. I generally arrive home at 5.15 pm or sooner. I find it rather strange that a specific time is stated, without any guidance.

I don't often drive on the road where the offense was committed, but I have in previous weeks, it was on the 25th Oct.

I haven't asked for a photo, because my name is not on the NIP.

I don't expect to be cleared of this offense, I assume the police know what they are doing, but I don't recall committing any offenses and where it happened I am unsure.

Car_54

sevenhills said:

TooManyPoints said:

I indent to tell them that I wasn't driving the vehicle at the time of the offence, it was parked near my home.

How can you be certain of this? The only mention you have made of the time is this:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

You have assumed that the vehicle was parked near your home. How reliable is that assumption? What is the relationship between you finishing work and your vehicle being parked at home? Do you know where the location mentioned is? Do you recall driving past that point any time on that day? Have you asked for photographs as I suggested earlier? Lastly, how long ago was this alleged offence said to have taken place?

I'm asking these questions because you have to use "reasonable diligence" to establish who was driving. All you have done so far (apart from disputing whether the notices are really for you or not) is to assume your car was at home at the time. I'm not trying to start any arguments; I'm simply trying to make sure you are doing the right thing. At the moment I'm not at all convinced that you are.

I haven't asked for a photo, because my name is not on the NIP.

I don’t know what the name has to do with asking for a photo “ to help identify the driver”.

My guess is that the photo will show the driver of your car committing the offence,  probably one hour before the quoted time because of the change back to GMT.

To summarise from several previous posts, the NIP has no legal status. What matters is the s172 request, to which you MUST reply, whatever your name is. If you respond saying no-one was driving at that time, the penny will probably drop and you’ll get another request with the right time. Or possibly it’ll go straight to court.

sevenhills

Car_54 said:

My guess is that the photo will show the driver of your car committing the offence,  probably one hour before the quoted time because of the change back to GMT.

To summarise from several previous posts, the NIP has no legal status. What matters is the s172 request, to which you MUST reply, whatever your name is. If you respond saying no-one was driving at that time, the penny will probably drop and you’ll get another request with the right time. Or possibly it’ll go straight to court.

The time error was before the clocks changed.

I am answering truthfully if I state that I was at home at the time stated, do you think I should lie?

The police would certainly clear more crimes if they just changed the time of the crime when suspects had an alibi.

TooManyPoints

I am answering truthfully if I state that I was at home at the time stated, do you think I should lie?

How do you know you were at home at the time?. I'll mention your reference to the time again:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

I've asked you a number of questions which a court will ask itself or you if you are prosecuted and you haven't really addressed them. You haven't asked for photographs although it seems pretty certain your vehicle was involved. You have said this is because of the name issues. Well if it was my vehicle and I doubted it was at the alleged location at a time I believed it was elsewhere, I'd want to see them. It's clear you have decided what you are going to do so I think I'm out now unless anything startlingly new crops up. Good luck and do let us know how it goes.

sevenhills

TooManyPoints said:

How do you know you were at home at the time?. I'll mention your reference to the time again:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

I've asked you a number of questions which a court will ask itself or you if you are prosecuted and you haven't really addressed them. You haven't asked for photographs although it seems pretty certain your vehicle was involved. You have said this is because of the name issues. Well if it was my vehicle and I doubted it was at the alleged location at a time I believed it was elsewhere, I'd want to see them. It's clear you have decided what you are going to do so I think I'm out now unless anything startlingly new crops up. Good luck and do let us know how it goes.

Even if I was shown the photo of my vehicle committing the offense, it would still be true that I was not driving it at 5.39 pm, we also use an app that tracks our vehicles and who is driving them. The app doesn't always work, but it probably was.

I don't want a court case, I want to pay a fine or be cleared because of a police error.

Keep_pedalling

sevenhills said:

TooManyPoints said:

How do you know you were at home at the time?. I'll mention your reference to the time again:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

I've asked you a number of questions which a court will ask itself or you if you are prosecuted and you haven't really addressed them. You haven't asked for photographs although it seems pretty certain your vehicle was involved. You have said this is because of the name issues. Well if it was my vehicle and I doubted it was at the alleged location at a time I believed it was elsewhere, I'd want to see them. It's clear you have decided what you are going to do so I think I'm out now unless anything startlingly new crops up. Good luck and do let us know how it goes.

Even if I was shown the photo of my vehicle committing the offense, it would still be true that I was not driving it at 5.39 pm, we also use an app that tracks our vehicles and who is driving them. The app doesn't always work, but it probably was.

I don't want a court case, I want to pay a fine or be cleared because of a police error.

I can understand why you don’t want to go to court, but it is the only way you are going to be cleared, but at the risk of a much bigger fine if you fail to get a not guilty verdict.

ontheroad1970

You don't understand that asking for the photographs may actually strengthen your case (if you have one).

mdann52

In this case, write a (signed) letter back saying you were the keeper of the vehicle, and drove home on the date mentioned, parking outside on the road at X time. This satisfies your requirements under S172, as you have given then the information you have. You are under no obligation to use their form

lemondrops69

If you know you definitely weren't driving on that road at that time just go to court and get them to prove you were driving. Any photographic evidence they have wont show you driving as you finished work at 5.25, easy

Herzlos

sevenhills said:

TooManyPoints said:

How do you know you were at home at the time?. I'll mention your reference to the time again:

"I have just looked at the time of the offense, 5.39, I have just looked at my timesheet and I finished work at 5.25. The vehicle, I assume, was parked near my home at that time, ready for the next days work."

I've asked you a number of questions which a court will ask itself or you if you are prosecuted and you haven't really addressed them. You haven't asked for photographs although it seems pretty certain your vehicle was involved. You have said this is because of the name issues. Well if it was my vehicle and I doubted it was at the alleged location at a time I believed it was elsewhere, I'd want to see them. It's clear you have decided what you are going to do so I think I'm out now unless anything startlingly new crops up. Good luck and do let us know how it goes.

Even if I was shown the photo of my vehicle committing the offense, it would still be true that I was not driving it at 5.39 pm, we also use an app that tracks our vehicles and who is driving them. The app doesn't always work, but it probably was.

I don't want a court case, I want to pay a fine or be cleared because of a police error.

Does anyone else have use of the car? If not then you're going to have a hard time convincing a judge that some unknown person took it without you noticing. You'd also have a hard time trying to claim the name was so incorrect you didn't think it was for you.

Was it actually your car? Did your boss get the details mixed up with someone else? Asking for the photos in order to identify the driver will help here.

As an aside, I got a red light ticket years ago, where there was a typo in the registration number "AB12 DEF]" where it was technically wrong but obvious what was meant. I'd asked a solicitor and he was happy to take a lot of money to try and take it to court, but rated my prospects of winning at pretty much nothing.  It didn't help that the photo was clearly of my car with the correct registration.

You'll certainly come out of this much worse off if you try and play silly games with them - they'll see it all the time.