Money Moral Dilemma: Should I ask for money if people charge their electric cars when they visit?

Herzlos

Goudy said:

So you have an inappropriate car for the trip would need to recharge like this?
What's the usual answer to this on the forum, if you need a car that has a better range, hire an ICE?

I am not having a go, I am pointing out that there should be no need for this type of charging if we believe everything we've read that's been posted by EV enthusiasts on these forums.

Plus, if anyone dares to disagree, they are labelled anti EV.

I guess those with limited batteries are unimportant anyway, we can dismiss them as "edge cases", that seems to be the term used to dismiss others concerns.

Yeah, if you've got an older EV and a friend that won't let you charge at the destination, you'd need to do something else. Charge somewhere else, hire a car, take a train, find better friends, whatever.

As mentioned already, one of the perks of an EV is that everywhere *is* part of the infrastructure. You're not limited to only using petrol stations.

Goudy said:
I guess those with limited batteries are unimportant anyway, we can dismiss them as "edge cases", that seems to be the term used to dismiss others concerns.

We're still in edge case territory here; people aren't likely to be traveling 70+ miles to visit other people that often, and they probably don't only have access to an older EV with < 100 miles of range.

For example, the newer Leaf has a real world range of 145 miles, so the journey could be done without a single charge if you were brave enough to get home on 5 miles.

This would likely fall into the 'few times a year' edge case that all the EV enthusiasts agree is still a problem with current gen tech. Though it's getting less of a problem as technology and infrastructure improve.

I'd assume that someone with an EV who has only driven 5 miles to visit me isn't going to want to recharge whilst here. None of my EV visitors have done. I guess if they were low on charge and had a big trip coming up I'd offer it, but that hasn't happened yet.

The only demographic who'd need to recharge at someone elses house are those who have an EV with a range low enough that it doesn't let them do the return trip on a single charge, but high enough that they wouldn't need to stop again anyway.

i.e.
100 mile EV, 50 mile round trip = no charging.
100 mile EV, 150 mile round trip = charging at hosts.  <-- this is the edge case.
100 mile EV, 300 mile round trip = 2x on-road charges.

Goudy

MacPingu1986 said:

Goudy said:

So you have an inappropriate car for the trip would need to recharge like this?
What's the usual answer to this on the forum, if you need a car that has a better range, hire an ICE?

I am not having a go, I am pointing out that there should be no need for this type of charging if we believe everything we've read that's been posted by EV enthusiasts on these forums.

Plus, if anyone dares to disagree, they are labelled anti EV.

I guess those with limited batteries are unimportant anyway, we can dismiss them as "edge cases", that seems to be the term used to dismiss others concerns.

It's not inappropriate because there are numerous charging solutions that make the trip perfectly manageable - Herzlos listed them above. Someone with a small low range EV probably uses it for short local drives the vast majority of the time where it's small, light, useful, cheap etc...

There isn't a "need" to charge at a friends house (you could charge nearby, or leave earlier and charge on the way home), but it makes it super easy and a nice thing to do, to just let someone charge if you have the facilities.

I'm imagining a quick visit to Goudy's house by one of his friends now....

Friend: "Mind I make a cup of coffee Goudy?"

Goudy: "Why? What is the need? didn't you have a cup of coffee at home before you left?"

Friend: "No, but..."

Goudy: "Does your house not have a kettle?"

Friend "Well it does, but..."

Goudy "Do you *know* how much this unnecessary & wasteful use of *my* electricity would cost?

Friend "No but I just thought...."

Goudy "I see no need why I should subsidize your selfishness! If you want a coffee I suggest you leave immediately and purchase one on your way home"

Friend "You might be onto something there..."  

You are making a poor argument very badly.

I have already written there is a massive difference between having drinks or food, using toilet etc on a visit and taking these things home with you at the end of the visit.

No one would welcome anyone in their home if they started to load it all in their boot on the way home, if I'm wrong invite us all around to your place.

I don't have a problem with first just the same as most people, but I guess most people would have a problem with the second.

Those that can't make the distinction, well you are welcome to my pity any time you like.

Making someone out to be a scrooge because you can't make the distinction, well more pity it is.


I think it was me that listed the charging solutions and they got quoted by someone else and my point has been all along that there should not be a need to charge your EV at someone else's home.
So thank you for agreeing with me.

The only "need" appear to be for convenience and cost to the EV owner and I think that is rather selfish. 
If you've bought a car that's inconvenient, is that other peoples problem? I don't think it is myself.

But that is just my opinion, I came to that opinion as it wouldn't be something I would do myself or feel comfortable asking to do for various reasons, the main ones being I probably don't have to as there are other charging solutions and I couldn't offer the same in return due to where I live.
But you're all welcome to disagree.

To summarise in simple terms:
Drink, eat and wipe your backside at my place when you visit - Yes
Empty my cupboards into your car's boot when you visit - No
Is there a real need to charge an EV at someone else's home - Not really. 

  

Jenni_D

I've used my granny lead 4 times in the almost 1 year I've had my EV:

1x at a hotel where we were staying. They had a weather-proof external socket and they let me use it to charge my car overnight. I calculated the usage and offered to pay for it but they declined.
2x at my brother's place when visiting for the weekends. (~150 mile journey. I charged at a rapid en-route there, but would have needed another 2 charge stops to get home if I didn't charge overnight). I calculated the cost each time and bank-transferred the money
1x at my cousin's place when visiting for the weekend. (~160 mile journey - same story as above). I offered to pay but he declined. (I'm going there again in a couple of weeks, so it'll be the same procedure).

So, ask to charge when visiting? Yes. (If they say no, so be it. Alternative charging options are usually easily available)
Offer to pay for said charge? Absolutely.

SSHC92

There appears to be a lot of whataboutery regarding someone visiting in an ICE powered car and paying for their fuel and further confusion from some about the availability of public chargers and why someone might choose to ask to charge at their friends house. The charging of an EV and the refuelling of an ICE powered car, while ultimately having the same goal, are very different scenarios and therefore not really comparable in this situation.  

Perhaps this hypothetical will help, you arrive at your friends house in an ICE powered car, they have a petrol pump at home (stay with me here, this is why they aren't really comparable!), it costs them 127p per litre to use as opposed to the usual 150p per litre at the nearest petrol station which is 30 minutes away from their home and considerably less than the 185p per litre charged at the services on your way home. That closest petrol station is also not on your route home but as you're running a bit low you will be needing a top up to get home when the visit is over. Would you not ask to use it? If you did I certainly hope that you would also offer to pay for what you'd used!

For obvious reasons this example wouldn't happen but hopefully it illustrates what the EV owning friend may be thinking. A public fast charger can cost as much as 50p per kWh and some rapid chargers are around 85p per kWh whereas charging at home without a specialist tariff is around 27p per kWh. On top of all that factoring in a charging stop may cut into the time they get to spend with their friend depending on their car and the types of public chargers available. 

I am assuming that it is a long or overnight visit and that they don't have sufficient range to get home when they arrive, if not there will be limited benefit from "Granny charging" and they absolutely should be offering to pay even if it is only a few pounds, they all count! If they haven't offered and it's bugging you then ask away, you are friends after all!

For the record I've recently made the switch to an EV myself but I'm yet to get my home charger installed as I await some work by my DNO first, as a result I'm not yet on a specialist tariff either. I have been "granny charging" overnight at my standard rate (26.58p/kWh with Octopus) at a cost of around £3 a pop.
I've also charged at a friends house who does have a proper 7kW home charger, my offer to pay was refused.

Itllbefine

Yes. You could say 'Of course you can. It will cost just £10' (or whatever it will cost you). Why would they be upset about that? 

silverwhistle

Goudy said:

Yet here's another thread with EV owners explaining the need to charge cheaply at someone home as elsewhere is expensive and inconvenient. 

I can't work out which is correct and why do posters get labelled anti EV for suggesting something EV owners admit to needing to do.

Did you actually read my post properly? I went over 300 miles to visit my friend. I did not plug in at her house although she offered me the opportunity and I did not need to. It is not a question of _need_, which you keep on harping on about.

But friends and relatives like to help, at least in mine and others' experience, and it would be a lot cheaper so why not do so? Absolutely no one is imposing themselves on their friends and relatives, but the whole subject seems to be exercising a number of people's resentful and righteous indignation and missing the point completely.

In the meantime I'm happy to do the rest of my mileage at ~2p a mile on my cheap overnight tariff and not put any stress on either public charging or the electricity supply system.

abdam

Yes. No one really expects to drive for free and it shouldn't be an issue to ask for what they use. If they expect it for free then they need their morals addressing. 

I don't have an electric vehicle so I'm not sure how you can tell how much they use but hopefully someone here knows that and can say how to know how much to ask from them 

aintreemaid

nabob said:

If you have a petrol car how are your visitors going to charge their cars as I believe you need a special charging port!  But yes I would certainly expect a bottle of wine or similar gesture for payment.

My neighbour, who has a diesel car, has a charging point that was installed by a previous owner so I suspect that this situation will arise more frequently with the increase in EV ownership.

Herzlos

I believe all new builds need to come with charging ports now, but you can charge an EV from a standard 3-pin socket though it's pretty slow (2kw instead of 8kw).

abdam said:

I don't have an electric vehicle so I'm not sure how you can tell how much they use but hopefully someone here knows that and can say how to know how much to ask from them 

The car will tell you how much was used. Even if you only have percentage before and percentage after, you can make a pretty good guess based on the battery size.

MeteredOut

Herzlos said:

I believe all new builds need to come with charging ports now, but you can charge an EV from a standard 3-pin socket though it's pretty slow (2kw instead of 8kw).

abdam said:

I don't have an electric vehicle so I'm not sure how you can tell how much they use but hopefully someone here knows that and can say how to know how much to ask from them 

The car will tell you how much was used. Even if you only have percentage before and percentage after, you can make a pretty good guess based on the battery size.

Granny charges can actually charge at around 3kW.

And, being pedantic, the car will tell you how much it has received, but not necessarily how much was used, since there is an inherent loss in the charging process (see this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread/p235)

Based on one persons calculation (so anecdotal) it could be around 15% losses.