Distressing theatre trip with disabled mom/consumer rights advice

GingerTim

pinkshoes said:

elsien said:

The fat person also has the right to sit in the seat that they have paid for? 

Of course.

But they have only paid for THEIR seat. Not the one next to them. So they have to right to sit in the seat they have paid for.

If you are obese and in any doubt that you cannot fit into a single seat, you need to speak to the theatre in advance or book two seats. 

elsien said:

That may be what you believe should be the case. And I’m don’t disagree that it’s horrible to be in that situation. But I’m not seeing under what legislation the theatre could require someone to move from a seat that they  have validly paid for. And I’m pretty sure they’d be citing discrimination as well if the theatre tried to do so. 

And regardless of what people think should happen, if the OP wishes to take it further, it will come down to the relevant legislation. Which is why I asked on what grounds the equality commission thought there may be a case. 

Again, they're entitled to sit in the seat they've paid for. Not someone else's.

It's not discrimination. It's being realistic.

To be really blunt, if you had two obese people side by side, they just would not fit, so one would have had to be moved. So technically it's discrimination against slimmer people who are expected to have someone else's fat wedged up against them just because they don't fill their seat space. 

The OP paid for two seats at the theatre but only one was available. A full refund is due.

I don't think the bold part is a legal requirement, so a that individual doesn't 'need' to do anything. 

Whether someone 'should', of course, is another question.

born_again

Vic28 said:

I'm totally stumped on who to get help from for the below, hoping someone here can advise.

My physically disabled mom bought us two theatre tickets that came to over £108. We were not able to use the seats when we arrived - the explanation for which is below. We were offered emergency seating that could not accommodate my mom's disability, the theatre would not give us a refund and my mom's credit card company won't supply a refund under Section 75 because they need more evidence of the problem (which was only ever discussed in person at the time). 

I've emailed the theatre three times to get an acknowledgment in writing that they did not and would not offer a refund and they won't reply - I suspect because they're nervous, and below I explain why I think that is. I'd love advice on how we get the money back. We're not super well-off and £108 was a big spend for my mom, this theatre trip was a rare treat we couldn't enjoy.

Here's more about what happened:

We'd purchased great seats in the stalls close to the stage, one was an aisle seat to accommodate my mom's disability. My seat was next to her (so, one in from the aisle) and we had not been sat long when an incredibly large man sat in the seat next to me.

Now, I'm going to just acknowledge that I fully understand that this is a sensitive issue. But just to communicate facts he was so large that he could not sit next to me without touching me (spilling well into my seat with his arms and his leg well into my foot space and touching my leg too).

For personal reasons that I don't feel I should have to divulge, it's incredibly distressing for me to have a strange man have uninterrupted physical contact with me against my will, even if the intention in not malicious. I'm 5'2 and 115lbs, so pretty small, so hopefully that gives a sense of just how large the man was/how far he was spilling. I could not squash myself all the way up to my mom because of her disability either (and would have been impossible to maintain that position for the entire show without it being incredibly uncomfortable).

I got up and explained the issue as sensitively as possible to an usher, then the box office, then a manager. We were informed there were no other seats available (it was fully booked). They offered us what they called their "emergency" seating. But - other than the fact this seating was the furthest seating from the stage, high up and at the very back, so much lesser in quality than what we'd booked - it could not accommodate my mom's disability.

We asked for a refund and they said no. The (male) manager then shamed me for not being more accepting of the man, which was very distressing. It is critical that I make clear at this point that I did not at any moment refer directly to the man’s size or body in front of him. I kept my statements entirely to what my needs were to the theatre staff; to not be touched by a strange man. I used the words "very large" to theatre staff only so that I could at least communicate the situation to theatre staff and never in the man's presence. I explained to the manager that if he could just sit without touching me, there would be no problem, but he could not.

Since this time I have related the incident to the theatre administrator and executive producer, who acknowledged with a generic reply in the way of Sorry you had a bad time, we hope you come again.

When I followed up twice to ask her to confirm in writing that they were not offering a refund for the Section 75 she did not reply. I suspect they are nervous about this being an equal rights issue, because I recounted my distress to the theatre admin on feeling that my discomfort was not taken into account. 

I asked the Citizen's Advice and other than Section 75 they said there was no other avenue to pursue. They suggested I contact the Commission. I did, and they believed I had a case but the only recourse was to fill in one of their EHRC forms and send it to the theatre, with no expected consequence.

I totally understand that being of such a size must be very distressing for a plethora of reasons, but we all have our struggles, visible and otherwise, and I Equality feel it should not follow that a woman should be forced to endure unwanted male physical contact for 2.5 hours.

Please advise/recommend whom I speak to in order to pursue a refund. This was our annual theatre trip that is a treat for us, and it's been pretty upsetting to say the least.

S75 is out as there is no breach of contract or misrepresentation. Chargeback, again no as you received what you paid for.
No equal rights issues on the refusal of S75 claim, as there simply isn't one.
You bought & received 2 seats. Yes it can be uncomfortable when someone such as this sits next to you, but sadly that is life & nothing you can do.

Anything from the theatre would be good will, but even then that would be very generous.

I'm even surprised CA even mention S75, but that seems to be a standard cop out for them these days. Can't see any Equality issues for the above reason.

In future as one other poster mentioned, book 3 seats. Or go to a theatre that has a dedicated disabled area.

Debbie9009

I would say there has been a breach of contract as the theatre was unable to provide what the OP booked which was full access to the seat she had paid for.

I don’t think the OP should have to pay for three seats just in case the person next to them is too large to fit in one seat, the large person should be paying for the extra seat as they are the person that is unable to fit in one seat, I would see this as common courtesy.  I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to take up more than one seat if I had only paid for one, unfortunately I think size has become such a PC issue that people are now expect to just put up with it, and are shamed if they complain.

Emmia

Debbie9009 said:

I would say there has been a breach of contract as the theatre was unable to provide what the OP booked which was full access to the seat she had paid for.

I don’t think the OP should have to pay for three seats just in case the person next to them is too large to fit in one seat, the large person should be paying for the extra seat as they are the person that is unable to fit in one seat, I would see this as common courtesy.  I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to take up more than one seat if I had only paid for one, unfortunately I think size has become such a PC issue that people are now expect to just put up with it, and are shamed if they complain.

The theatre provided the OP with a seat, and the mom with a seat and the other patron with a seat - these seats were all paid for. 

The OP seems to have a difficulty with being in close proximity to unknown people (wouldit have made a difference if it had been a larger lady, rather than a man?), but that is neither the theatre or the other patrons fault. We don't know what size the OP is - they might also fill the seat... if the OP wants to have a guarantee of no touching or contact of any sort, the only solution is paying for 3 seats - this is in some ways unfair, but presumably the other patron doesn't have touching issues.

What would the OP do if they were sat behind tall people, with the effect they couldn't see the show? That too is not the theatre's fault and the OP wouldn't be able to get a refund.

diinozzo

Emmia said:

Debbie9009 said:

I would say there has been a breach of contract as the theatre was unable to provide what the OP booked which was full access to the seat she had paid for.

I don’t think the OP should have to pay for three seats just in case the person next to them is too large to fit in one seat, the large person should be paying for the extra seat as they are the person that is unable to fit in one seat, I would see this as common courtesy.  I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to take up more than one seat if I had only paid for one, unfortunately I think size has become such a PC issue that people are now expect to just put up with it, and are shamed if they complain.

The theatre provided the OP with a seat, and the mom with a seat and the other patron with a seat - these seats were all paid for. 

The OP seems to have a difficulty with being in close proximity to unknown people (wouldit have made a difference if it had been a larger lady, rather than a man?), but that is neither the theatre or the other patrons fault. We don't know what size the OP is - they might also fill the seat... if the OP wants to have a guarantee of no touching or contact of any sort, the only solution is paying for 3 seats - this is in some ways unfair, but presumably the other patron doesn't have touching issues.

What would the OP do if they were sat behind tall people, with the effect they couldn't see the show? That too is not the theatre's fault and the OP wouldn't be able to get a refund.

The OP has told us they are 5' 2" tall and weigh 115lbs.

JetpackVelociraptor

I think anyone who has caught a plane, bus or train or been to a theatre more than once has probably encountered exactly this scenario. It's unfortunate, and there's a lot of "shoulds" - the theatre should have larger seats available for larger patrons, they should ask the fat guy to move, the airlines should force large people to buy two seats, etc etc. But in terms of legal requirements and rights and things of that nature, I don't think you actually have a claim if the person next to you is overhanging their seat. If you didn't have issues with someone being in your personal space you could have still sat there. The seat was usable, just not by you. Had the theatre asked the large person to move, wouldn't they have some kind of claim as they'd purchased that seat in that location too? And then no doubt would be embarrassed being asked to move? I think it's just an unfortunate situation.

Belenus

JetpackVelociraptor said:

I think anyone who has caught a plane, bus or train or been to a theatre more than once has probably encountered exactly this scenario. It's unfortunate, 

As this picture demonstrates.

pinkshoes

Emmia said:

Debbie9009 said:

I would say there has been a breach of contract as the theatre was unable to provide what the OP booked which was full access to the seat she had paid for.

I don’t think the OP should have to pay for three seats just in case the person next to them is too large to fit in one seat, the large person should be paying for the extra seat as they are the person that is unable to fit in one seat, I would see this as common courtesy.  I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to take up more than one seat if I had only paid for one, unfortunately I think size has become such a PC issue that people are now expect to just put up with it, and are shamed if they complain.

The theatre provided the OP with a seat, and the mom with a seat and the other patron with a seat - these seats were all paid for. 

The OP seems to have a difficulty with being in close proximity to unknown people (wouldit have made a difference if it had been a larger lady, rather than a man?), but that is neither the theatre or the other patrons fault. We don't know what size the OP is - they might also fill the seat... if the OP wants to have a guarantee of no touching or contact of any sort, the only solution is paying for 3 seats - this is in some ways unfair, but presumably the other patron doesn't have touching issues.

What would the OP do if they were sat behind tall people, with the effect they couldn't see the show? That too is not the theatre's fault and the OP wouldn't be able to get a refund.

The OP paid for a seat, the theatre provided the seat that the OP had paid for, but someone else was "sitting" in their seat.

As someone else was "sitting" in their seat, the theatre should have moved this person, offered a suitable alternative (no suitable availability) or refunded in full.

It's nothing to do with "touching". If you pay for a seat, you should not expect someone else to be spilling over into it!

Debbie9009

The OP paid for a seat that they were not able to use as someone else was partially occupying it, the theatre didn’t address this issue so therefore the OP didn’t get what they paid for which was a whole seat.  If the large person was asked to move and was embarrassed by this, tough they shouldn’t be occupying someone else’s seat.  I don’t understand why the large persons feelings should be considered above the OP getting what they paid for.

For those saying the OP should buy three seats, why ? Do we all need to be so fearful of upsetting someone who doesn’t consider the impact of their size on others that we should all be paying extra for this ?

OP I would contact the theatre again and explain that they didn’t supply what you purchased and therefore you are requesting a refund.  I would then vote with my feet and avoid that theatre, and as a regular theatre goer myself I would love to hear who they are so that I can avoid them.

lincroft1710

Debbie9009 said:

The OP paid for a seat that they were not able to use as someone else was partially occupying it, the theatre didn’t address this issue so therefore the OP didn’t get what they paid for which was a whole seat.  If the large person was asked to move and was embarrassed by this, tough they shouldn’t be occupying someone else’s seat.  I don’t understand why the large persons feelings should be considered above the OP getting what they paid for.

For those saying the OP should buy three seats, why ? Do we all need to be so fearful of upsetting someone who doesn’t consider the impact of their size on others that we should all be paying extra for this ?

OP I would contact the theatre again and explain that they didn’t supply what you purchased and therefore you are requesting a refund.  I would then vote with my feet and avoid that theatre, and as a regular theatre goer myself I would love to hear who they are so that I can avoid them.

But the theatre did supply the seat and when approached did offer an alternative. It was not the theatre's fault the OP couldn't use the seat.