Distressing theatre trip with disabled mom/consumer rights advice

Aylesbury_Duck

I'm in agreement with most here. I can't see what the the theatre have done that merits a refund.  The fact is that you never know who will be sat next to you in a theatre, cinema, aircraft or similar places, and if you want certainty, you need to pick seats that provide that, or buy an extra seat to create that space.

It's an unfortunate situation for all concerned, but I don't see that any consumer rights apply here.  That leaves appealing for a goodwill gesture. I don't think the theatre not replying implies they're nervous about their legal position.  They probably don't quite know how to reply without causing offence.  You've taken the reasonable and correct opinions and advice on here badly, and we're all anonymous strangers.  I suspect the theatre is nervous about upsetting you further, and perhaps doing nothing is safer than provoking a less pleasant response.

eskbanker

Vic28 said:

I'm totally stumped on who to get help from for the below, hoping someone here can advise.

My physically disabled mom bought us two theatre tickets that came to over £108. We were not able to use the seats when we arrived - the explanation for which is below. We were offered emergency seating that could not accommodate my mom's disability, the theatre would not give us a refund and my mom's credit card company won't supply a refund under Section 75 because they need more evidence of the problem (which was only ever discussed in person at the time). 

I've emailed the theatre three times to get an acknowledgment in writing that they did not and would not offer a refund and they won't reply - I suspect because they're nervous, and below I explain why I think that is. I'd love advice on how we get the money back. We're not super well-off and £108 was a big spend for my mom, this theatre trip was a rare treat we couldn't enjoy.

Here's more about what happened:

We'd purchased great seats in the stalls close to the stage, one was an aisle seat to accommodate my mom's disability. My seat was next to her (so, one in from the aisle) and we had not been sat long when an incredibly large man sat in the seat next to me.

Now, I'm going to just acknowledge that I fully understand that this is a sensitive issue. But just to communicate facts he was so large that he could not sit next to me without touching me (spilling well into my seat with his arms and his leg well into my foot space and touching my leg too).

For personal reasons that I don't feel I should have to divulge, it's incredibly distressing for me to have a strange man have uninterrupted physical contact with me against my will, even if the intention in not malicious. I'm 5'2 and 115lbs, so pretty small, so hopefully that gives a sense of just how large the man was/how far he was spilling. I could not squash myself all the way up to my mom because of her disability either (and would have been impossible to maintain that position for the entire show without it being incredibly uncomfortable).

I got up and explained the issue as sensitively as possible to an usher, then the box office, then a manager. We were informed there were no other seats available (it was fully booked). They offered us what they called their "emergency" seating. But - other than the fact this seating was the furthest seating from the stage, high up and at the very back, so much lesser in quality than what we'd booked - it could not accommodate my mom's disability.

We asked for a refund and they said no. The (male) manager then shamed me for not being more accepting of the man, which was very distressing. It is critical that I make clear at this point that I did not at any moment refer directly to the man’s size or body in front of him. I kept my statements entirely to what my needs were to the theatre staff; to not be touched by a strange man. I used the words "very large" to theatre staff only so that I could at least communicate the situation to theatre staff and never in the man's presence. I explained to the manager that if he could just sit without touching me, there would be no problem, but he could not.

Since this time I have related the incident to the theatre administrator and executive producer, who acknowledged with a generic reply in the way of Sorry you had a bad time, we hope you come again.

When I followed up twice to ask her to confirm in writing that they were not offering a refund for the Section 75 she did not reply. I suspect they are nervous about this being an equal rights issue, because I recounted my distress to the theatre admin on feeling that my discomfort was not taken into account. 

I asked the Citizen's Advice and other than Section 75 they said there was no other avenue to pursue. They suggested I contact the Equality Commission. I did, and they believed I had a case but the only recourse was to fill in one of their EHRC forms and send it to the theatre, with no expected consequence.

I totally understand that being of such a size must be very distressing for a plethora of reasons, but we all have our struggles, visible and otherwise, and I feel it should not follow that a woman should be forced to endure unwanted male physical contact for 2.5 hours.

Please advise/recommend whom I speak to in order to pursue a refund. This was our annual theatre trip that is a treat for us, and it's been pretty upsetting to say the least.

Appreciate that you probably won't welcome this either but a section 75 claim wouldn't have been tenable anyway, as these depend on an item value of £100 or more, so two tickets at £54 each wouldn't qualify:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#when

However, I'd agree with other posters that there doesn't appear to have been any breach of contract by the theatre, which would be another prerequisite for a claim under s75 (or chargeback, an alternative bank route).

photome

I have had exactly as you describe happen on a 10 hour flight, no spare seats and no compensation , I have to add I didn’t ask for any as I accepted these things happen , it wasn’t the airlines fault 

I regularly go to theatres and have bad experiences altho not the same as you describe, but again it’s not been the venues fault


I dont think you have any recourse

elsien

I’d also be interested to hear why the equality commission think you have a case when it was you (rather than your mother) who felt you needed to move, and you have not said that you have a disability that would put you within the remit of the equality act? 

pinkshoes

@Vic28 you're more polite than I would have been!

I would have told the person next to me they were spilling over into my seat, and could they either sit in their own seat properly, or find another seat.

So I'm going to disagree with the others here, because the theatre should have moved the person who was taking up two seats into the emergency seating. Ideally the fat person should have paid for two seats, or contacted the theatre to ask for a seat with more width. 

If you've paid for a seat in the theatre, then you should expect to be able to sit in it. I also disagree with those saying ONE of you should have moved. That would spoil the experience as otherwise you would have just gone on your own, and you wouldn't expect a disabled person to sit by themselves in case a fire alarm went off and they needed help being evacuated.

I'd personally write to the theatre and tell them that they should have made the other person move as they clearly required two seats, so as they didn't do this, and your seat was unavailable, you were therefore unable to see the production, and are requesting a full refund of £XXX (or tickets to view the show on another night??).

I once had a refund on a bus ticket as the woman who had booked the seat next to be was really fat and spilt into my seat. There was no way I was spending 2 hours with someone else's flesh pushing into me. 

elsien

The fat person also has the right to sit in the seat that they have paid for? 

Debbie9009

elsien said:

The fat person also has the right to sit in the seat that they have paid for? 

 They don’t however have the right to take up someone else’s seat and spoil their theatre experience.  I’m with pink shoes, I think the theatre should have moved the larger person, and they should have been told that in future they need to book two seats.  I know it’s not PC to say this, but we all should take responsibility for ourselves and that includes an awareness of our size and how that could affect others in this type of situation, and I am saying this as a large person myself.

elsien

That may be what you believe should be the case. And I’m don’t disagree that it’s horrible to be in that situation. But I’m not seeing under what legislation the theatre could require someone to move from a seat that they  have validly paid for. And I’m pretty sure they’d be citing discrimination as well if the theatre tried to do so. 

And regardless of what people think should happen, if the OP wishes to take it further, it will come down to the relevant legislation. Which is why I asked on what grounds the equality commission thought there may be a case. 

Alderbank

I'm not going to take sides on this myself! but here is an interesting and balanced article about this increasingly relevant topic from the viewpoint of theatres, performers and fat folk (their words) themselves.

https://mashable.com/article/entertainment-seats-plus-size-fat-people

pinkshoes

elsien said:

The fat person also has the right to sit in the seat that they have paid for? 

Of course.

But they have only paid for THEIR seat. Not the one next to them. So they have to right to sit in the seat they have paid for.

If you are obese and in any doubt that you cannot fit into a single seat, you need to speak to the theatre in advance or book two seats. 

elsien said:

That may be what you believe should be the case. And I’m don’t disagree that it’s horrible to be in that situation. But I’m not seeing under what legislation the theatre could require someone to move from a seat that they  have validly paid for. And I’m pretty sure they’d be citing discrimination as well if the theatre tried to do so. 

And regardless of what people think should happen, if the OP wishes to take it further, it will come down to the relevant legislation. Which is why I asked on what grounds the equality commission thought there may be a case. 

Again, they're entitled to sit in the seat they've paid for. Not someone else's.

It's not discrimination. It's being realistic.

To be really blunt, if you had two obese people side by side, they just would not fit, so one would have had to be moved. So technically it's discrimination against slimmer people who are expected to have someone else's fat wedged up against them just because they don't fill their seat space. 

The OP paid for two seats at the theatre but only one was available. A full refund is due.