Barclays closed my current account - warning to other expats

[Deleted User]

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

This is simply not accurate. A bank in anywhere in the EU Single Market (EEA) is able to provide banking services across the whole EEA based upon their home country banking licence - however, they aren't obligated to do so.

The OP has emigrated from the UK and is therefore no longer a UK resident. Barclays has obviously taken a business decision to not support non-residents unless they're HNW. It's not entirely surprising as they can't sell them most products, can't easily pursue them locally for debts and cost them more than they make.

GeordieinAotearoa

Section62 said:

TheWoodler said:

FWIW here is a list dated February 2022 from the Reserve Bank of NZ of local, regional and international players who are no longer registered in NZ: 

Thanks, that's informative -

Barclays Bank PLC

Registered 7 December 1988
Relinquished 27 March 1998

I didn't even live here until 2000 so I guess this has not been a factor in what has happened. I don't believe NZ banking regulations or conditions have had anything to do with Barclays' decision. My guess is that it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned on the forum - changes in financial regulations and conditions after Brexit and subsequent commercial, strategic business decisions by Barclays. They did emphatically tell me that they were only going to provide everyday banking to UK customers from now on. So any international activity they are still involved in must be aimed at the high net worth, offshore customer market. Which unfortunately I don't qualify for.

GeordieinAotearoa

[Deleted User] said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

This is simply not accurate. A bank in anywhere in the EU Single Market (EEA) is able to provide banking services across the whole EEA based upon their home country banking licence - however, they aren't obligated to do so.

The OP has emigrated from the UK and is therefore no longer a UK resident. Barclays has obviously taken a business decision to not support non-residents unless they're HNW. It's not entirely surprising as they can't sell them most products, can't easily pursue them locally for debts and cost them more than they make.

Your final para - yes, I suspect you are right. I don't hold that against them - they are a business after all - I just wish they had communicated it better. If they could send me email alerts for bank statements, you'd think they'd have at least done that, for such a vital and important letter.

GeoffTF

[Deleted User] said:

This is simply not accurate. A bank in anywhere in the EU Single Market (EEA) is able to provide banking services across the whole EEA based upon their home country banking licence - however, they aren't obligated to do so.

Read the Payment Accounts Directive.

subjecttocontract

I have every sympathy.
You can't be the only expat with this problem, there must be thousands. Can't you contact an accountant or overseas tax consultant that specialises in UK overseas matters. When I was working abroad we used a firm called Blevins Franks. These and others are easy to find online and may have a solution to your problem.

jaypers

Aside from the business and Brexit logistics, I’m stunned that people who have decided to no longer live in the UK and have no longer have a residence here take it for granted that any organisation should still be providing them with the same services. I do agree that these things must be communicated clearly but I have little sympathy for anyone who hasn’t amended their situation to ensure that they have the correct account and finance channels for expats. 

dil1976

subjecttocontract said:

I have every sympathy.
You can't be the only expat with this problem, there must be thousands. Can't you contact an accountant or overseas tax consultant that specialises in UK overseas matters. When I was working abroad we used a firm called Blevins Franks. These and others are easy to find online and may have a solution to your problem.

The word you are looking for here is Migrant.

Section62

GeoffTF said:

[Deleted User] said:

This is simply not accurate. A bank in anywhere in the EU Single Market (EEA) is able to provide banking services across the whole EEA based upon their home country banking licence - however, they aren't obligated to do so.

Read the Payment Accounts Directive.

PAD doesn't impose the requirement you claimed it did in this earlier post -

GeoffTF said:

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

PAD, or as transposed into UK law as The Payment Accounts Regulations 2015, only related to basic bank accounts (provided by designated credit institutions), and the right to open a basic bank account was not unconditional.

There appears to be nothing in PAD that required banks to keep standard current accounts open if the account holder moved out of the UK to another EU country, or for that matter elsewhere in the world.

Furthermore, PAD only meant that designated credit institutions were legally required to offer basic bank accounts to eligible customers from 18 September 2016. The way you've presented the information suggests banks like Barclays have been required to "provide the service" over some extended period of time and "...it did not cost them much more to include NZ...".

So, if Barclays were not legally obliged to provide accounts under PAD [until after the vote to leave the EU], then what was it that led them to provide accounts for expats like the OP in New Zealand for all those years prior to September 2016?

If it is uneconomic for them to do it now that PAD doesn't apply, then why wasn't it uneconomic before PAD came into force?

The answer, I believe, is that PAD has absolutely nothing to do with it.  My expectation is that banks like Barclays maintained these accounts either because they didn't know where the customer was in the world, or they made a commercial decision that doing so was worthwhile.

But they don't anymore.

gt94sss2

GeordieinAotearoa said:

[Deleted User] said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

This is simply not accurate. A bank in anywhere in the EU Single Market (EEA) is able to provide banking services across the whole EEA based upon their home country banking licence - however, they aren't obligated to do so.

The OP has emigrated from the UK and is therefore no longer a UK resident. Barclays has obviously taken a business decision to not support non-residents unless they're HNW. It's not entirely surprising as they can't sell them most products, can't easily pursue them locally for debts and cost them more than they make.

Your final para - yes, I suspect you are right. I don't hold that against them - they are a business after all - I just wish they had communicated it better. If they could send me email alerts for bank statements, you'd think they'd have at least done that, for such a vital and important letter.

Have you tried contacting HSBC UK as previously suggested?

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/international/apply-for-a-uk-account/

Click the link in the black box re: opening an HSBC Bank or  Advance account depending on your requirements

I suspect others in your position would be interested to know if they allow you to open an account.

GeordieinAotearoa

subjecttocontract said:

I have every sympathy.
You can't be the only expat with this problem, there must be thousands. Can't you contact an accountant or overseas tax consultant that specialises in UK overseas matters. When I was working abroad we used a firm called Blevins Franks. These and others are easy to find online and may have a solution to your problem.

I know Blevins Franks. But this is not really a tax or accountancy matter. It's purely to do with provision of banking services.