Barclays closed my current account - warning to other expats

wmb194

Section62 said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

^The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

Is your assertion "it did not cost them much more to include NZ" based on some kind of evidence, or just a guess?

Does anyone actually know whether Barclays were providing a service in New Zealand under NZ regulations, or whether they were providing a service in the UK which just happened to be used by people living elsewhere? ....Possibly without Barclays knowing where in the world their permanent residence is.

They didn't have to keep them open. When I left an EU country to move back to England - and this was before Brexit - I had almost all of my accounts closed because in their terms they stated that they didn't want customers living outside that country. The only bank that mostly didn't care was one of the major clearing banks. The one thing it forced me to close was my brokerage account because it said it didn't want customers covered by any stockmarket regulator other than its home regulator and this is affected by residency (I'm not convinced it's really true or an issue but anyway).

I only closed it a year or so ago - so post-Brexit - because it kept increasing its account fee.

friolento

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

I never mentioned Brexit but since you do: I can imagine that the changes imposed by Brexit on Barclays European operations made them review the costs of their entire international operations, and conclude that they cannot justify these costs any longer.  I am not one of the people who can’t accept that Brexit has  had a lot of unintended consequences.

Section62

friolento said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

I never mentioned Brexit but since you do: I can imagine that the changes imposed by Brexit on Barclays European operations made them review the costs of their entire international operations, and conclude that they cannot justify these costs any longer.  I am not one of the people who can’t accept that Brexit has  had a lot of unintended consequences.

Neither am I.  But equally I don't think people should be misled by their banks (or internet forum posters) into blindly believing what they are told.

As wmb194 points out - Barclays are not closing down "their entire international operations".  They are just (apparently) being more selective about the customers they take on, and if you want an international account then it will be through one of their offshore operations (mainly IoM) rather than through a mainland UK Barclays branch.  An idle moment check on which countries are in the Barclays '70' suggests those that make it onto the list are more likely to attract HNW individuals who meet the financial criteria.

Barclays wanting to consolidate accounts held by overseas customers into their international account operation, and at the same time weed out unprofitable customers, makes a lot more sense in terms of a customer living in NZ than the "because of Brexit" reason they've been given.

TheWoodler

FWIW here is a list dated February 2022 from the Reserve Bank of NZ of local, regional and international players who are no longer registered in NZ: 

https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/regulation-and-supervision/cross-sector-oversight/registers-of-entities-we-regulate/banks-no-longer-registered-in-new-zealand

Section62

TheWoodler said:

FWIW here is a list dated February 2022 from the Reserve Bank of NZ of local, regional and international players who are no longer registered in NZ: 

Thanks, that's informative -

Barclays Bank PLC

Registered 7 December 1988
Relinquished 27 March 1998

GeordieinAotearoa

Section62 said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

friolento said:

Section62 said:

GeordieinAotearoa said:

jaypers said:

Blame Brexit!

I do! Barclays said as much.

Of course they would.  So much more palatable than telling you they can't be bothered to keep your accounts open when it is more hassle (to them) than it is worth.  A standard MO of corporations to say "we are unable to" when what they mean is "we don't want to".

Somewhere there is a quote from the FCA saying that whether to provide accounts to people living overseas is a commercial decision for the individual banks, not a matter of regulation.  If I can find the quote I'll copy it here (unless someone finds it before me)

The first post in this thread -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6474399/barclays-to-close-accounts-of-all-british-expats/p1

The FCA has no say in the regulations of other countries. Banks, however, have to comply with the regulations of the countries they are offering a service in. Providing a current account to a resident of country X means that they have to have a licence, or a passporting arrangement, for country X.

So what banking regulations changed in New Zealand as a result of Brexit?

Because if the FCA are saying there is no regulatory issue (from a UK perspective) then it could only be something New Zealand have done (or not done) which has led Barclays to close the OP's account ("due to Brexit")

...or it could be that the somewhat more obvious explanation is correct - that Barclays simply don't want to provide banking facilities to people not living in the UK.

When we were EU members that had to provide the service if you went to another EU country and it did not cost them much more to include NZ. Now that they do not have to provide the service at all, they have decided to discontinue it.

^The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

Is your assertion "it did not cost them much more to include NZ" based on some kind of evidence, or just a guess?

Does anyone actually know whether Barclays were providing a service in New Zealand under NZ regulations, or whether they were providing a service in the UK which just happened to be used by people living elsewhere? ....Possibly without Barclays knowing where in the world their permanent residence is.

They definitely know your permanent address at least. It determines where your cards are sent and whether you're allowed to use their app (not possible without a UK phone number).

GeoffTF

Section62 said:

The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

There is a right to a basic bank account in any other EU member state:

https://verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsverzeichnis/EN/rechte-und-pflichten/102837947

It is called the Payment Accounts Directive:

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-532-2487?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

Section62

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

There is a right to a basic bank account in any other EU member state:

https://verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsverzeichnis/EN/rechte-und-pflichten/102837947

It is called the Payment Accounts Directive:

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-532-2487?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

The information you've posted relates to entitlement to open a "basic payment account".

It says nothing about a right to keep a full feature current account if you move away from the country where that product is offered.

Note also that a bank may refuse to open a basic account for a person who doesn't live in that country, or require proof of a genuine interest for doing so.

GeoffTF

Section62 said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

There is a right to a basic bank account in any other EU member state:

https://verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsverzeichnis/EN/rechte-und-pflichten/102837947

It is called the Payment Accounts Directive:

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-532-2487?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

The information you've posted relates to entitlement to open a "basic payment account".

It says nothing about a right to keep a full feature current account if you move away from the country where that product is offered.

Note also that a bank may refuse to open a basic account for a person who doesn't live in that country, or require proof of a genuine interest for doing so.

A basic bank account within the terms of the PAD would allow the OP to collect his pension payments and move them on. UK citizens do not have a right to a full feature current account with a UK bank either. A bank in an EU member state cannot refuse to open a basic bank account because the applicant lives in another EU member state. The OP certainly has a genuine interest in opening an account.

Section62

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

GeoffTF said:

Section62 said:

The second time it has been claimed banks were in some way "forced" to keep accounts open if people moved to another EU country (although not if the person remained in the UK) - but is that really the case?  What was the regulation that required banks to maintain the accounts of people as they moved round Europe, but not if they stayed at home? (genuine question)

There is a right to a basic bank account in any other EU member state:

https://verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsverzeichnis/EN/rechte-und-pflichten/102837947

It is called the Payment Accounts Directive:

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-532-2487?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

The information you've posted relates to entitlement to open a "basic payment account".

It says nothing about a right to keep a full feature current account if you move away from the country where that product is offered.

Note also that a bank may refuse to open a basic account for a person who doesn't live in that country, or require proof of a genuine interest for doing so.

A basic bank account within the terms of the PAD would allow the OP to collect his pension payments and move them on. UK citizens do not have a right to a full feature current account with a UK bank either. A bank in an EU member state cannot refuse to open a basic bank account because the applicant lives in another EU member state. The OP certainly has a genuine interest in opening an account.

The OP lives in New Zealand.