'Unfair' standing charges need to go: MPs back Martin's and MSE's calls for energy bill overhaul

pseudodox

I can see I am not the only one here who sees s/c as a necessary "evil".  Yes they seem to have increased a lot but hey - I can run a fridge, freezer, alarm system, electric garage door, have lights at the flick of a switch, TV, PC, heating & hot water on demand.  I pay council tax, even on weeks I don't need my bins emptied, on weeks I am away from home.  TV licence is not discounted for days I don't watch anything or am on holiday.  I pay insurance for home & car even though I have never made a claim, and that is on a collective basis so that those who do suffer loss or injury are recompensed.  I get a state pension which is far above anything I ever paid into the system because those working today pay NIC again as a collective.

Life/living in 21st century costs.  I feel fortunate to live in my bit of the world & not somewhere I have to walk miles to collect water, have no or intermittent power supply, can make a hot drink or a hot meal without foraging for firewood.

There's not much you can buy these days for under £1, unless it is disposable.  24/7/365 access to what have become life's essentials is still relatively a good deal.  There is an option if you don't want to pay s/c.  Go off grid & see how much more effort everyday life would require.

[Deleted User]

There is a way to reduce standing charges that is fair on all consumers. Suppliers should offer power-limited tariffs with lower standing charges as is the situation in France:



Note: this has nothing to do with how much energy a consumer uses (kWh) but how much instant power (kW) a consumer wants from the Grid. For kVA, read kW.

Scot_39

Netexporter said:

Does anyone know when the SoLR costs will work their way out of the standing charge? That should bring the rate down by good amount.

The SoLR charges were over £60 last year - and sure read that was split almost 50% electric SC and 50% gas unit rate.

Despite that £40+ drop - network non slr charge went up by more.

So next April at earliest. 

But govt sitting on debt from late and too big to offload failures like Bulb still iirc.   


If the 50:50 true that £19 is say £10 in c£200.

And CI were forecasting an 8p rise - £30pa - to electric SC in Q2/Apr24.

It will need a major policy shift by govt / Ofgem.

And if govt cared about - low users - if wouldn't be hiding behind the £424 cap drop to prevent repeat of a targeted ebss to many low users -who don't save that £424 - particularly all electric - who's rates only dropped c10% cf gas 27% in July. My net bill effectively increased c£300 in Jul as a result.

Scot_39

Dolor said:

There is a way to reduce standing charges that is fair on all consumers. Suppliers should offer power-limited tariffs with lower standing charges as is the situation in France:



Note: this has nothing to do with how much energy a consumer uses (kWh) but how much instant power (kW) a consumer wants from the Grid. For kVA, read kW.

Doesn't work for those with electric heating unless the MR electric reflects the same allowances as gas.

An all electric decent sized home het conventionally - say on e7 could get fairly well up  that table.


I get to 12 kW+ regularly with one large,2 small nsh and immersion heater.

[Deleted User]

Arguably, those with heat pumps; storage heaters; EV chargers etc will make the greatest demand on the Grid. Clearly, the French Government has decided that consumers in these categories should pay more in standing charges.

Netexporter

The 18kVA deal is roughly the equivalent of a supply with a 80A main fuse that would probably granted G99. So that would cost about £70 more than I pay Octopus. I'd still regard that as value for money, of there were equivalent TOU/export tariffs and overall that looks fairly equitable. Somebody with modest energy requirements would be quids/euros-in.

Spoonie_Turtle

[Deleted User] said:

Arguably, those with heat pumps; storage heaters; EV chargers etc will make the greatest demand on the Grid. Clearly, the French Government has decided that consumers in these categories should pay more in standing charges.

I think the point is that more people on E7 with NSH/immersion heaters are in the categories of less well-off and more vulnerable, than people with heat pumps, EV chargers etc.  

[Deleted User]

Spoonie_Turtle said:

[Deleted User] said:

Arguably, those with heat pumps; storage heaters; EV chargers etc will make the greatest demand on the Grid. Clearly, the French Government has decided that consumers in these categories should pay more in standing charges.

I think the point is that more people on E7 with NSH/immersion heaters are in the categories of less well-off and more vulnerable, than people with heat pumps, EV chargers etc.  

So we don’t want high energy users or high power users - who make the maximum physical demands on the Grid - to pay standing charges: so who does pay? The answer to dealing with the poor is to increase benefits - not try to do it by cutting standing charges.

Spoonie_Turtle

[Deleted User] said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

[Deleted User] said:

Arguably, those with heat pumps; storage heaters; EV chargers etc will make the greatest demand on the Grid. Clearly, the French Government has decided that consumers in these categories should pay more in standing charges.

I think the point is that more people on E7 with NSH/immersion heaters are in the categories of less well-off and more vulnerable, than people with heat pumps, EV chargers etc.  

So we don’t want high energy users or high power users - who make the maximum physical demands on the Grid - to pay standing charges: so who does pay? The answer to dealing with the poor is to increase benefits - not try to do it by cutting standing charges.

Agreed.  Benefits being inadequate has already been an issue for years - especially since they were cut and frozen in the 2010s - it's just the standing charge increasing so much recently has made people see it as more of an issue now than before. 
[Alas the 'benefits claimants are scroungers and deserve nothing above the barest minimum to survive' view is horrendously strong still in society, and makes it look unlikely there'll ever be any real commitment to raise them to what independent charities say is a livable amount.]

QrizB

[Deleted User] said:

The answer to dealing with the poor is to increase benefits - not try to do it by cutting standing charges.

Exactly this. If you want "the poor" to have more money, give it to them. Don't go pretending that it's somehow the fault of greedy energy companies.