'Unfair' standing charges need to go: MPs back Martin's and MSE's calls for energy bill overhaul

[Deleted User]

matt_drummer said:

Dolor said:

If we went back in time everybody would get a bill three months in arrears and then pay it.

All suppliers pay their suppliers in advance of supply. The industry is also moving quickly towards 30 minute settlements as described here:

https://www.power-technology.com/features/reforming-energy-systems-30-minutes-at-a-time/?cf-view

On a less technical level, a supplier with a million customers with an average monthly bill of £250 would have to have a credit facility of up to £750M to cover the cost of energy supplied. Assuming a supplier could find a bank that would be willing to cover that amount of cashflow, who do you think would end up paying the bank interest?

Us, and that is why I am satisfied with how things are.

I am an accountant and have a pretty good idea of how it works.

I have no problem with my supplier having a large credit balance and I would happily pay more in standing charges
if I was asked to do so.

I feel I get extremely good value for money from my energy arrangement.

Sorry, I wasn’t getting at you. I find these discussions about standing charges extremely tiresome. I have seen very few proposals that look at the problem in the round. All too often, any solutions proposed are based solely on self interest with no recognition that things have to be paid for either by consumers or taxpayers.

matt_drummer

[Deleted User] said:

matt_drummer said:

Dolor said:

If we went back in time everybody would get a bill three months in arrears and then pay it.

All suppliers pay their suppliers in advance of supply. The industry is also moving quickly towards 30 minute settlements as described here:

https://www.power-technology.com/features/reforming-energy-systems-30-minutes-at-a-time/?cf-view

On a less technical level, a supplier with a million customers with an average monthly bill of £250 would have to have a credit facility of up to £750M to cover the cost of energy supplied. Assuming a supplier could find a bank that would be willing to cover that amount of cashflow, who do you think would end up paying the bank interest?

Us, and that is why I am satisfied with how things are.

I am an accountant and have a pretty good idea of how it works.

I have no problem with my supplier having a large credit balance and I would happily pay more in standing charges
if I was asked to do so.

I feel I get extremely good value for money from my energy arrangement.

Sorry, I wasn’t getting at you. I find these discussions about standing charges extremely tiresome. I have seen very few proposals that look at the problem in the round. All too often, any solutions proposed are based solely on self interest with no recognition that things have to be paid for either by consumers or taxpayers.

I know you weren't.

All good here

Petty squables aside

PennineAcute

If you put it on taxes, you will probably get the 2+ tax paying adult households complaining they are paying more than a 1 adult tax paying household.

Remember the fuss about the poll tax!

No system is fair as there will always be winners and losers. 

Keep well away from Utilita's little method please.  Better the devil you know.

markin

Making it a fixed yearly bill more like the TV license would help some people see how much they are saving in summer by reducing usage.
 

mmmmikey

markin said:

Making it a fixed yearly bill more like the TV license would help some people see how much they are saving in summer by reducing usage.
 

Not really sure what you mean by that - are you suggesting splitting the SC out and presenting it anually? Or somehow annualising energy bills? Be interesting to hear your thoughts....

markin

matt_drummer said:

I honestly don't think that around 50p a day is much to pay for being able to turn on what you want when you want, knowing that your supply will be fixed at no additional cost and knowing that any credit balance with your supplier is safe.

Just because you didn't use much today doesn't mean you couldn't have if you wanted to and that is what you pay for.

What else do we get for 50p a day that we rely on so much?

So many of us are happy to pay more for other things but not the one thing that makes it all possible, our energy supply.

People will pay £10, 20, 30, 40+ a day in rent for a roof over their head, but don't want to pay 50p for 24hr access to power to run the fridge, boil a kettle or charge a laptop.

markin

mmmmikey said:

markin said:

Making it a fixed yearly bill more like the TV license would help some people see how much they are saving in summer by reducing usage.
 

Not really sure what you mean by that - are you suggesting splitting the SC out and presenting it anually? Or somehow annualising energy bills? Be interesting to hear your thoughts....

Yes split off and annually, *So the IHD shows 0p in the morning.

 

dealyboy

@markin said:

matt_drummer said:

I honestly don't think that around 50p a day is much to pay for being able to turn on what you want when you want, knowing that your supply will be fixed at no additional cost and knowing that any credit balance with your supplier is safe.

Just because you didn't use much today doesn't mean you couldn't have if you wanted to and that is what you pay for.

What else do we get for 50p a day that we rely on so much?

So many of us are happy to pay more for other things but not the one thing that makes it all possible, our energy supply.

People will pay £10, 20, 30, 40+ a day in rent for a roof over their head, but don't want to pay 50p for 24hr access to power to run the fridge, boil a kettle or charge a laptop.

50p a day (£180 a year) ... but look at how our Forumites scramble to get the latest banking account switching incentive or regular saver to gain about the same ... (me included).

bristolleedsfan

markin said:

matt_drummer said:

I honestly don't think that around 50p a day is much to pay for being able to turn on what you want when you want, knowing that your supply will be fixed at no additional cost and knowing that any credit balance with your supplier is safe.

Just because you didn't use much today doesn't mean you couldn't have if you wanted to and that is what you pay for.

What else do we get for 50p a day that we rely on so much?

So many of us are happy to pay more for other things but not the one thing that makes it all possible, our energy supply.

People will pay £10, 20, 30, 40+ a day in rent for a roof over their head, but don't want to pay 50p for 24hr access to power to run the fridge, boil a kettle or charge a laptop.

Many people understandably do not like fact electricity standing charge has increased from just over 24p per day (£88.00 ish) per year to in some region 62p per day -  £226.00 per year since 31 March 2022 with very little of that increase ( maximum £19 per year some of which might be on gas unit rate) currently relating to SoLR 

Scot_39

markin said:

Making it a fixed yearly bill more like the TV license would help some people see how much they are saving in summer by reducing usage.
 

Cannot understand why that would make it any significantly easier at all - unless you think many need to look at say monthly variable direct debit amount or standard credit bills and not capable of seeing difference.  But all the information required should be on bills.

My winter bills are regularly as much as 2.5 to 3x summer bills in coldest months - I do not need to subtract the £17pm to see the difference - even for me as a low user - of the order of £100+.

But same easily roughly achieved by taking the bill and subtract roughly 1/12th of annual standing charge at the time. It can vary by Ofgem review - including Oct 1st by 0.3p SR /0.4p MR in my region for electric - or not with some suppliers (EOn Next)  

Or simply look at the bill  - where usage charge and standing charges are detailed - for many these days - every month - in kWh and £, and in days and £s respectively.


And I haven't paid my TV license annually for years - it's monthly by DD.  Why would anyone still pay a full year in advance, and lend the woeful BBC or fee collector the money by paying annually ?