Lebara free roaming doesn't include calls to EU numbers

savergrant

glocal said:

remember when we could only withdraw cash from our bank?

You just needed a letter of introduction and the right old school tie. 

eDicky

MSE_Chris said:

glocal said:

I just discovered that Lebara UK's interpretation of free roaming in the EU is that while you are in an EU country you can use your UK minutes allowance for calls from/to the UK only. Calls to local/EU numbers are chargeable. After quite some time chatting to customers service, they instructed me to read carefully what the following section on their website states: 

Whether you need to travel for work or leisure, we understand the importance of staying connected. That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK. This means that you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost.

In other words, the sentence in bold (emphasis added) is carefully designed to sound friendly but it applies literally. I am not sure how 'you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost' does not contradict it. To add to the confusion, free data roaming works as expected, even though their interpretation of free voice roaming is unconventional to say the least. I consider this misleading marketing and I am planning to report it. I am leaving Lebara and I think MSE should update any recommendations stating Lebara's free roaming is not what most people would expect. It looks like Lebara misled MSE into promoting their deal based on a carefully engineered misunderstanding.

We've asked Lebara and it's confirmed that whilst you're in one of its roaming destinations, you can call numbers within that destination (landlines and mobiles) and is taken from your allowance as normal, without charge.

It would appear that such calls are made using your international calls allowance, of 100 minutes or whatever, and are not part of your plan's normal UK allowance. So strictly speaking they are part of the allowance that comes with your Lebara plan, but it is the same obfuscation that the OP has pointed out. So perhaps you need to ask Lebara directly what part of their plans are used for calls within the EU country in which you are roaming and to other EU States while there.

glocal

eDicky said:

So strictly speaking they are part of the allowance that comes with your Lebara plan, but it is the same obfuscation that the OP has pointed out.

If that's the case, Lebara are trying really hard to stick with their confusion marketing. If they claim now they mean these calls come out of the international calls allowance, they can't say they are 'without charge' because they don't know if you have any international free minutes left. The 100 minutes allowance is not that much, and you can easily spend it before you even leave the UK.

In the meanwhile, Lebara have been profiting greatly from MSE endorsing them for months leading up to summer. I received MSE's newsletter today which again recommend Lebara. So, Lebara have already made the most of people needing free roaming for their summer holidays. Even if Lebara apologise, amend their T&Cs, and pay under a tenner to those few who claim compensation, is that enough? Why wouldn't a company blatantly try to mislead the public and MSE for quick profit in the future?

jimjames

glocal said:

I guess most Brits on holiday won't notice the difference as they only call home, not to another EU state.

That's until they call a restaurant, a hotel, a car rental, or some other local business.

Having done that with my Lebara SIM in the EU I can confirm that despite your claim in post #1 that you can call local numbers without additional costs in exactly the same way I can call a number in France from home. I think you're being exceptionally picky considering the great deal that Lebara offer. You are using your phone as you would in the UK - to call UK numbers. If you call a non UK number in the UK then you will use up international minutes. I really don't see that as being a contradiction. It would be frustrating if Lebara stopped offering roaming because of some minor quibble about T&Cs. If you asked people if they wanted to call home or call locally when on holiday I suspect the majority of them would want calling home included not EU.

glocal

I really don't see that as being a contradiction. It would be frustrating if Lebara stopped offering roaming because of some minor quibble about T&Cs. 

If it is so minor, it is amazing how hard Lebara are trying to confuse the point. All they have to do is explain exactly what they mean and stop using the term 'free roaming'. 

If you asked people if they wanted to call home or call locally when on holiday I suspect the majority of them would want calling home included not EU.

Too many assumptions there. We obviously know different people. Some of my friends are already out of pocket, especially those who had already used their international allowance before they left the UK. But that's not the point really. Let's see what MSE and ASA have to say.

savergrant

The lebara offers I am seeing on mse say 'UK minutes' and 'uk texts'. I don't think it is reasonable to believe that a call made in a different country to a non-uk number could be considered 'uk minutes'. And I believe roaming means connecting to a partner network when you are beyond the geographical boundaries of your own carrier. Lebara are not charging for roaming as they are allowing you to access all of your allowances in the same way as if you were in uk.

jimjames

savergrant said:

The lebara offers I am seeing on mse say 'UK minutes' and 'uk texts'. I don't think it is reasonable to believe that a call made in a different country to a non-uk number could be considered 'uk minutes'. And I believe roaming means connecting to a partner network when you are beyond the geographical boundaries of your own carrier. Lebara are not charging for roaming as they are allowing you to access all of your allowances in the same way as if you were in uk.

I completely agree. Roam like home means exactly that. I can use my UK minutes and UK texts exactly as I would if I was at home and use data in the same way too. Even better with Lebara if I want to call an international number I get an allowance for that as well in the same way as if I was to call a number in France when I'm at home. It's not rocket science and I think it's creating a fuss over nothing, wasting Lebara's time and increasing their costs without reason.

glocal

The definition of 'free roaming' (or 'roam like at home') in Europe is well established and widely accepted as covering calls within and between destinations while at one of those destinations. This is the case since the EU introduced legislation in the late 2000s. Three introduced this arrangement even earlier. I can confirm I and every person I know haven't paid a penny in roaming charges while making many local calls within and between EU countries for 15 years or so. After Brexit, some UK providers introduced charges but many haven't.

In addition to the above definitions, let's see what the industry defines as free roaming now. Eg iD states:

'When you're in any of the 50 free roaming destinations (Band 1 or Band 2), you can use your minutes to call the UK or the same destination you're in. If you're in a Band 1 destination, you can also use your minutes to call any other Band 1 destination.'

Plusnet says:

'...any calls or texts sent between any fixed line and mobile numbers in Roam Like at Home destinations will come out of your plan allowance.'

Clearly, the industry hasn't changed the time-honoured definition of free roaming. In fact, Lebara know that. Not only do they try hard to confuse the point but they appear to deliberately mislead MSE. When the MSE Team contacted Lebara for an explanation following my report, Lebara replied with this (I quoted it earlier in this thread too): 

While Roaming in an EU country, Lebara customers can call landlines and mobiles of that EU country as per their UK national allowance. So example, a person on a typical 5GB plan with Unlimited UK mins & texts while travelling in Italy can use 5GB data + use their unlimited UK mins and texts allowance to call landlines and mobiles in Italy at no extra cost.

So, either they are deliberately misleading consumers and MSE, or their staff needs retraining (while signing up new customers). I just checked -- in its newsletter, website and comparisons, MSE still describes Lebara as offering free roaming, which is demonstrably not true. In doing so, it also gives Lebara an unfair advantage over the many competitors who do actually offer free roaming. 

eDicky

jimjames said:

savergrant said:

The lebara offers I am seeing on mse say 'UK minutes' and 'uk texts'. I don't think it is reasonable to believe that a call made in a different country to a non-uk number could be considered 'uk minutes'. And I believe roaming means connecting to a partner network when you are beyond the geographical boundaries of your own carrier. Lebara are not charging for roaming as they are allowing you to access all of your allowances in the same way as if you were in uk.

I completely agree. Roam like home means exactly that.

Not really - 'Roam like at Home' as defined under the EU regulations that used to include UK networks includes calling and texting to any other EU country when you roam in Europe outside your home country, and that's what is generally still understood as 'free roaming' by travelers. Lebara are not providing the same thing, their plans usually include international minutes and these are used for any local or inter-country calls, if those minutes are available. They should, in my opinion, announce this fact instead of pretending that they give free roaming as it's generally understood.

glocal

eDicky said:

Not really...

Exactly this. Thanks for explaining this.

They should, in my opinion, announce this fact instead of pretending that they give free roaming as it's generally understood.

Yes, only it's not a matter of opinion. Deliberately and systematically misleading consumers and MSE to gain unfair advantage over competition during the lucrative summer months, when roaming matters to most, is unacceptable, breaks several rules and speaks volumes about Lebara's attitude. Certain customers will find out too late, when they are abroad. 

Lebara don't have to follow EU rules on free roaming and, like some others, they can discontinue offering it as it is understood. But they will have to be clear about it, refund travellers for any charges they inured, and reinstate the international calls allowance people may have used. Oh, they should also apologise. MSE should reconsider its recommendations and issue an explanation, saving people from finding out while they are abroad.