Lebara free roaming doesn't include calls to EU numbers

glocal

I just discovered that Lebara UK's interpretation of free roaming in the EU is that while you are in an EU country you can use your UK minutes allowance for calls from/to the UK only. Calls to local/EU numbers are chargeable. After quite some time chatting to customers service, they instructed me to read carefully what the following section on their website states: 

Whether you need to travel for work or leisure, we understand the importance of staying connected. That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK. This means that you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost.

In other words, the sentence in bold (emphasis added) is carefully designed to sound friendly but it applies literally. I am not sure how 'you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost' does not contradict it. To add to the confusion, free data roaming works as expected, even though their interpretation of free voice roaming is unconventional to say the least. I consider this misleading marketing and I am planning to report it. I am leaving Lebara and I think MSE should update any recommendations stating Lebara's free roaming is not what most people would expect. It looks like Lebara misled MSE into promoting their deal based on a carefully engineered misunderstanding.

eDicky

A recent thread indicated that when EU roaming, calls to another EU country use the international minutes included in your Lebara plan. This would be in line with usage while in UK, as stated in the section you quote, and you're right that it differs from the 'Roam like at Home' regulations that were previously but no longer imposed on UK networks. I guess most Brits on holiday won't notice the difference as they only call home, not to another EU state.

glocal

eDicky said:

it differs from the 'Roam like at Home' regulations that were previously but no longer imposed on UK networks. 

It is not imposed but several providers, particularly those offering monthly contracts and those running on 3, still offer 'proper' free roaming. Lebara UK clearly use confusion marketing there, in contravention of at least ASA's CAP 3.1 and 3.3. I am registering a complaint with ASA. By the time ASA does something about it, Lebara will have benefitted from false advertising and MSE recommendations. Consumers will find out if/when the try to use free roaming, when it's too late. 

I guess most Brits on holiday won't notice the difference as they only call home, not to another EU state.

That's until they call a restaurant, a hotel, a car rental, or some other local business.

savergrant

I guess most Brits on holiday won't notice the difference as they only call home, not to another EU state.

That's until they call a restaurant, a hotel, a car rental, or some other local business.

That would depend on whether they have used up their allowance of international minutes.

On another thread I posed a question, if I am in Greece and calling a greek number is that charged as a domestic call,, and what about if I call a UK number? I think I now know the answer, you can use your UK sim to call UK numbers at domestic rates, but if you call non-uk numbers you will be charged international rates, whichever country you are in.

Data is a different matter as networks don't charge you for accessing a non-uk website any differently to accessing a UK website.

MSE_Chris

glocal said:

I just discovered that Lebara UK's interpretation of free roaming in the EU is that while you are in an EU country you can use your UK minutes allowance for calls from/to the UK only. Calls to local/EU numbers are chargeable. After quite some time chatting to customers service, they instructed me to read carefully what the following section on their website states: 

Whether you need to travel for work or leisure, we understand the importance of staying connected. That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK. This means that you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost.

In other words, the sentence in bold (emphasis added) is carefully designed to sound friendly but it applies literally. I am not sure how 'you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost' does not contradict it. To add to the confusion, free data roaming works as expected, even though their interpretation of free voice roaming is unconventional to say the least. I consider this misleading marketing and I am planning to report it. I am leaving Lebara and I think MSE should update any recommendations stating Lebara's free roaming is not what most people would expect. It looks like Lebara misled MSE into promoting their deal based on a carefully engineered misunderstanding.

Hi glocal,

We've looked into this as it didn't seem quite right. 

We've asked Lebara and it's confirmed that whilst you're in one of its roaming destinations, you can call numbers within that destination (landlines and mobiles) and is taken from your allowance as normal, without charge.

Just curious, did you try making a call to a number within a roaming destination or is this just pretravel research?

Thanks,
MSE Chris

phillw

MSE_Chris said:
We've asked Lebara and it's confirmed that whilst you're in one of its roaming destinations, you can call numbers within that destination (landlines and mobiles) and is taken from your allowance as normal, without charge.

I assume it's based on what country the cell tower your mobile phone is connected to is in, rather than what country you are in.

savergrant

MSE_Chris said:
Hi glocal,

We've looked into this as it didn't seem quite right. 

We've asked Lebara and it's confirmed that whilst you're in one of its roaming destinations, you can call numbers within that destination (landlines and mobiles) and is taken from your allowance as normal, without charge.

Just curious, did you try making a call to a number within a roaming destination or is this just pretravel research?

Thanks,
MSE Chris

Do they mean your UK allowance or your international minutes allowance though? My understanding is the UK allowance is to call UK numbers and if you call an international number it comes from your international allowance, regardless of whether you are in UK or in a partner territory.
Perhaps they could clarify whether 'unlimited UK minutes' can be used to call numbers in the same country as you are calling from, or whether calls to non-uk numbers are classed as international, even if you are using your UK sim in that country?

glocal

MSE_Chris said:

We've asked Lebara and it's confirmed that whilst you're in one of its roaming destinations, you can call numbers within that destination (landlines and mobiles) and is taken from your allowance as normal, without charge.

Just curious, did you try making a call to a number within a roaming destination or is this just pretravel research?

While my SIM is used in Greece (connected to a Greek network in Athens) to call any standard Greek numbers, I actually see the minutes I use reduce my international minutes allowance. Lebara's system works this way -- this is a fact. 'Free roaming' means Lebara should use my unlimited calls allowance instead.  

If Lebara don't really offer 'free roaming' as it is commonly understood, they should make it clear in their T&Cs and publicity, and MSE should stop endorsing them. If Lebara claim they offer 'free roaming' they will have to rectify their software, reinstate the deducted international minutes, refund payments for unnecessary bolt-ons, and update their T&Cs. They should also retrain their staff. See my discussion with their customer service below. It would be funny if it wasn't infuriating.I have already registered a complaint with ASA and MSE.

Bot said: You can use all the bundle allowances while roaming in EU, but if you make any call on local number of that particular number it comes under international call and it uses international minutes

You said: Roaming in Europe. Whether you need to travel for work or leisure, we understand the importance of staying connected. That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK. This means that you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost.

You said: So this applies only to calls back to the UK?

Bot said: Yes, UK minute can be use only to call back to UK from WU country

You said: And free roaming for data works while in the EU?

You said: Free roaming for data works fine so far. We have 11.7GB left out of 12GB, and £0 balance

Bot said: Yes

You said: Can you show me the T&C that says free roaming for calls doesn't apply for calls to EU numbers please? I don't see any such explanation.

Bot said: You can use data upto 30GB while roaming within EU

You said: OK, can you show me where it is stated this doesn't apply to calls?

Bot said: You can use UK minute to make call only in UK, if you make call on local number within EU while roaming it will use International minute

You said: This is a unique interpretation of free roaming. Can you please show me where this is stated and explained.

Bot said: Roaming in Europe Whether you need to travel for work or leisure, we understand the importance of staying connected. That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK. This means that you can use the data and minutes included in your allowance in the EU at no extra cost. If you exhaust your full allowance while in the EU, you can buy a new plan or add a bolt on to continue being able to use services. If you add PAYG credit, standard PAYG charges will apply.

Bot said: https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/rates Opens in a new window; external. One or more links in the message.

You said: This says I can use the data and minutes allowance in the EU!

Bot said: Yes, please ready full message which i have sent above

You said: It makes no distinction between minutes and data

Bot said: It is very simple as you use bundle allowances while inside UK, so when you make call within UK it uses UK minutes and when you make call outside UK such as Greece it will use International minutes so same it works while roaming in Greece or EU.

Bot said: Please read this line That’s why we let you use your Lebara SIM in Europe just like how you would use it whilst you are in the UK.

You said: If that is the case I will have to formally complain for misleading t&C. I will cancel my account and let the forums that recommended Lebara know. This is ridiculously misleading. It's a unique interpretations of free roaming. No other network I know of interprets free roaming like this.

Bot said: OK

You said: The MSE forum will have to stop recommending Lebara for travelling.

Bot said: Is there anything else i can help you with apart from this ?

EDIT: In the meanwhile, the MSE team replied to my report with the following response from Lebara, which is clearly inaccurate:

While Roaming in an EU country, Lebara customers can call landlines and mobiles of that EU country as per their UK national allowance.

So example, a person on a typical 5GB plan with Unlimited UK mins & texts while travelling in Italy can use 5GB data + use their unlimited UK mins and texts allowance to call landlines and mobiles in Italy at no extra cost.

The only restriction we have on roaming is for any one on an unlimited plan – where data used can be used up to 30GB, after which customer can buy a roaming bolt on.

savergrant

It reminds me of a joke attributed to Tommy Cooper;
'So I rang up the local swimming baths.
I said "is that the local swimming baths?"
They said "it depends where you're calling from?"'

It sounds to me like you could call the restaurant or a taxi using your UK allowance... so long as they have UK mobile numbers.

For me it doesn't make sense to have added benefits to not being in your home country. Otherwise I could use my UK sim in Sweden to call Portugal and claim it as roaming but have to use my international allowance to call Portugal from home.

glocal

savergrant said:

For me it doesn't make sense to have added benefits to not being in your home country. Otherwise I could use my UK sim in Sweden to call Portugal and claim it as roaming but have to use my international allowance to call Portugal from home.

That was an anomaly caused by the EU principle of subsidiarity. The EU wanted to create a single telecoms market but because of the principle of subsidiarity it couldn't make telecoms cooperate in their national market which is under the jurisdiction of the member states. It could however force them to cooperate at the supra-national level which is under the jurisdiction of the EU. It's worth noting that Three introduced free roaming before and beyond the EU.  

Another way to eliminate the anomaly is to treat calls from the UK to Portugal as local too. After all, the distinction between local and international was always arbitrary. More so now with calls being routed over the internet. In fact, roaming within the home country would reduce this ridiculously wasteful duplication of resources and improve connectivity for consumers subscribing to different networks (remember when we could only withdraw cash from our bank?) 

savergrant

Ooh the good old days of cross-network calls at 35p per minute when you couldn't use all your included vodafone minutes because you were no longer on speaking terms with the person you signed up to vodafone in order to be able to call a couple of months before...
Just me then...

I waited so long to have a one2one with someone that it became t-mobile a week before I switched and paid £15 per month for 100 crossnetwork minutes.