Who does the house go to when a partner dies? Partner disagrees.

Flody994

Thanks again for the comments. I agree we are at an early stage being four years in, so when you think about future situations, you're trying to think about what would happen in a couple of years or twenty years with future children or when we're elderly. I can see the view of it not being right to expect his half of a house early on but as mentioned before, at what point does that change if you're not married - after being together six years, ten years, fifteen... As it is early days, I hadn't fully researched everything or spoken to a solicitor as I wasn't planning on buying the brother out yet so I hadn't thought about insurance, rather than using money from the estate.

After talking about it all again, my partner doesn't want me (or future children) to have to leave the home, so has said property would be inherited by the surviving owner as is usual with joint tenants, but just said he still expected me to help his siblings out. He said he hadn't thought it through at all when it came up and was just saying his first thoughts.

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but in talking more about all this, he's decided he wants to save as much money as possible over the next two years, pay himself more, take money out of his business via directors loans and dividends and try and pay off his 'half' of the mortgage (65k). Then he said when I buy the sibling out, he won't have to contribute to a mortgage but I will be paying for my 'half' of the house myself through the mortgage (although we will both be on the mortgage/the deeds). This all sounds very strange to me as it's more of an extension of your money/my money rather than thinking of the future, hasn't thought about changing circumstances/maternity leave, the tax implications of taking money from his business, the impossibility of raising that much so fast seeing as he doesn't earn much/have too much in his business etc etc. He said the concept of mortgages are a con because of all the interest you have to pay back and is worried about interest rate rises so wants to get rid of his mortgage as soon as possible (over two years). I said directors can't just take money out the business like that to pay a mortgage and banks don't care about the split of who pays what, they just want the mortgage paid so you're both liable. It's stressing me out a bit.

Edit - a typo

CSI_Yorkshire

Flody994 said:

 He said he hadn't thought it through at all when it came up and was just saying his first thoughts.

I think that's really the crux of it.  We don't have his side of the conversation of course, but it does sound quite a lot like "I have a vague sentiment of looking after my family so I'll just say half-understood ideas that might match that".

You'll have noticed that I don't think this is the nefarious "red flag" issue that others seem to - at this point and based on the information we have, I think it's much more likely to just be lack of clear thinking and understanding.

Sea_Shell

"so when you think about future situations, you're trying to think about what would happen in a couple of years or twenty years with future children or when we're elderly."


Don't forget, a will is not a "write once and forget about it" document.

It should be reviewed from time to time, especially if anything in your lives change.

Flody994

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Flody994 said:

 He said he hadn't thought it through at all when it came up and was just saying his first thoughts.

I think that's really the crux of it.  We don't have his side of the conversation of course, but it does sound quite a lot like "I have a vague sentiment of looking after my family so I'll just say half-understood ideas that might match that".

You'll have noticed that I don't think this is the nefarious "red flag" issue that others seem to - at this point and based on the information we have, I think it's much more likely to just be lack of clear thinking and understanding.

Yes, he hasn't really thought it through but even though he said his share of the house would go to me, I still thinks he means for me to give his siblings money from a future house sale. I will make it clear that if he wants his siblings to be taken care of, he needs to account for that in his will/insurance himself. 

Sea_Shell said:

"so when you think about future situations, you're trying to think about what would happen in a couple of years or twenty years with future children or when we're elderly."


Don't forget, a will is not a "write once and forget about it" document.

It should be reviewed from time to time, especially if anything in your lives change.

Thank you, yes that's important! I was more thinking of the option of joint tenants vs tenants in common when the initial change of equity happens.

housebuyer143

I'm not sure he's really thinking like a couple and more like a single person. When does that change, I'm not sure, it might never. My sister and her husband have the strangest relationship with money, where he earns full time and she works part time and looks after the kids but she has to use all her money to pay the bills and ends up in her over draft every month, while he is squirrelling away hundreds of pounds a months in savings he classes as his... They are married 10 years. 

It might just be who he is tbh and that might not change, you need to decide if that's what you want, because no way I would put up with the situation my sister is in. 

My husband and I split everything 50/50 which means putting all our money together, then splitting it down the middle and then paying 50% of all the bills and food each. Before we had a kid we did things differently again with us splitting everything down the middle bills wise, but each keeping hold of our own earnings as well both worked full time. Obviously this arrangement wasn't for me when I was not working to raise our child. 
We actually do have different house shares but this works for us and we plan to leave them to each other. 

You might need to broach this over a longer period, but really think about what you want in future scenarios and see if he is on the same page or not.

Niv

As others have pointed out, we have not fully heard your other halves side / fully understand his thought process but based on what we know I have a few thoughts.

It feels a bit like he is treating the house ownership a bit like a business arrangement. Each buy your own half, live there together, when die, the asset goes to 'family'. The difficulty here is if you start off this way (not sure I recognise 6 years together as 'early days' mind) when - if ever - does he consider you 'family' and would you even be thinking about how the house is split at this time only for one of you to pass and be reminded then and have to move. Who knows what either of your financial positions would be at that time. 

I partly see his thought around there only being a mortgage on 'your' half and therefore you should pay it, but again, it feels a bit like a business arrangement and seems fairish 'now' but not if you have kids, need to stop working or reduce hours to look after 'his kid' and are still expected to pay the mortgage.

I feel he really hasn't thought this through imo.

Based on the way he seems to think, if I were in your situation (and still wanted to be with him) I would say that I don't want to buy half of his current house. But instead say, happy to buy a house together with the house not being earmarked for family. You could put qual deposit down, both names on mortgage etc and pay if off together with it passing to the other in the event of death. But he will have his 'equity' from his current house that he can do whatever with and then chose to leave to siblings if he so wishes. Its a more expensive way of doing it but it may be the ontly way it stacks up in his head.

I have a friend back in uni. I paid the gas bill, he paid the electric, Based on usage we 'owed' each other £10 as both bills were £20. He simply could not get his head around us being 'quits' so he had to give me £10 and I had to give him £10 (but I was not allowed to give him the same £10 back) - it seemed completely barmy to me at the time and even now - but it was the way he thought.

Flody994

Niv said:

As others have pointed out, we have not fully heard your other halves side / fully understand his thought process but based on what we know I have a few thoughts.

It feels a bit like he is treating the house ownership a bit like a business arrangement. Each buy your own half, live there together, when die, the asset goes to 'family'. The difficulty here is if you start off this way (not sure I recognise 6 years together as 'early days' mind) when - if ever - does he consider you 'family' and would you even be thinking about how the house is split at this time only for one of you to pass and be reminded then and have to move. Who knows what either of your financial positions would be at that time. 

I partly see his thought around there only being a mortgage on 'your' half and therefore you should pay it, but again, it feels a bit like a business arrangement and seems fairish 'now' but not if you have kids, need to stop working or reduce hours to look after 'his kid' and are still expected to pay the mortgage.

I feel he really hasn't thought this through imo.

Based on the way he seems to think, if I were in your situation (and still wanted to be with him) I would say that I don't want to buy half of his current house. But instead say, happy to buy a house together with the house not being earmarked for family. You could put qual deposit down, both names on mortgage etc and pay if off together with it passing to the other in the event of death. But he will have his 'equity' from his current house that he can do whatever with and then chose to leave to siblings if he so wishes. Its a more expensive way of doing it but it may be the ontly way it stacks up in his head.

I have a friend back in uni. I paid the gas bill, he paid the electric, Based on usage we 'owed' each other £10 as both bills were £20. He simply could not get his head around us being 'quits' so he had to give me £10 and I had to give him £10 (but I was not allowed to give him the same £10 back) - it seemed completely barmy to me at the time and even now - but it was the way he thought.

That's a good idea - I have suggested not buying in to his house and we buy a different house together but he 1) doesn't want to move until at least after another 5 year fix mortgage as of the costs and hating moving so the next house would be more or less forever house in his eyes and 2) because he doesn't want a mortgage himself at all because of having to pay interest so wants to pay of his share and then not have another one unless absolutely necessary. But as you say, the business arrangement way of looking at it doesn't take in to account changing circumstances like children and being off for maternity. He seems quite rigid in his way of thinking about things.

Niv

Flody994 said:

Niv said:

As others have pointed out, we have not fully heard your other halves side / fully understand his thought process but based on what we know I have a few thoughts.

It feels a bit like he is treating the house ownership a bit like a business arrangement. Each buy your own half, live there together, when die, the asset goes to 'family'. The difficulty here is if you start off this way (not sure I recognise 6 years together as 'early days' mind) when - if ever - does he consider you 'family' and would you even be thinking about how the house is split at this time only for one of you to pass and be reminded then and have to move. Who knows what either of your financial positions would be at that time. 

I partly see his thought around there only being a mortgage on 'your' half and therefore you should pay it, but again, it feels a bit like a business arrangement and seems fairish 'now' but not if you have kids, need to stop working or reduce hours to look after 'his kid' and are still expected to pay the mortgage.

I feel he really hasn't thought this through imo.

Based on the way he seems to think, if I were in your situation (and still wanted to be with him) I would say that I don't want to buy half of his current house. But instead say, happy to buy a house together with the house not being earmarked for family. You could put qual deposit down, both names on mortgage etc and pay if off together with it passing to the other in the event of death. But he will have his 'equity' from his current house that he can do whatever with and then chose to leave to siblings if he so wishes. Its a more expensive way of doing it but it may be the ontly way it stacks up in his head.

I have a friend back in uni. I paid the gas bill, he paid the electric, Based on usage we 'owed' each other £10 as both bills were £20. He simply could not get his head around us being 'quits' so he had to give me £10 and I had to give him £10 (but I was not allowed to give him the same £10 back) - it seemed completely barmy to me at the time and even now - but it was the way he thought.

That's a good idea - I have suggested not buying in to his house and we buy a different house together but he 1) doesn't want to move until at least after another 5 year fix mortgage as of the costs and hating moving so the next house would be more or less forever house in his eyes and 2) because he doesn't want a mortgage himself at all because of having to pay interest so wants to pay of his share and then not have another one unless absolutely necessary. But as you say, the business arrangement way of looking at it doesn't take in to account changing circumstances like children and being off for maternity. He seems quite rigid in his way of thinking about things.

Well that could work fine, my potential response to the points if I were you :
1) Great I will have five years to save for when we buy together.
2) Cant have your cake and eat it mate, I am not interested in that arrangement.

He then has to decide if he wants to stay co owners with his sibling - assuming they aren't desperate to get out of the deal too!

Fight business with business!

[Deleted User]

"He said the concept of mortgages are a con because of all the interest you have to pay back and is worried about interest rate rises so wants to get rid of his mortgage as soon as possible".

 BUT he wants you to take one out  and commit to maybe 15-35 years of paying it back in order to live with him. Both in your 30s you said I think, so from your point of view, probably having children within the next 10 years? What happens if one of you loses a job/cares for the children and works fewer hours/he leaves or you want to? Who pays "your" mortgage then? 

Ksw3

If he doesn't believe in the institution of marriage, then its even more reason for you to have the house on death. 

If your hours reduce, your pension reduces, your career trajectory is delayed by having and raising his children and you don't have the security of the divorce process or legal right to the house it just seems barmy. 

His new idea to me sounds like he's happy as long as he is in a better financial position then you but its been a long week and I hope I'm wrong.