Gas Meter Still Increasing Whilst Gas Isolated (Siemens/Landis+Gyr E6S)

MultiFuelBurner

So do you now compare yourself to the national average user, above or below as to your lifestyle. Using the Ofgems notion of the average user against the energy supplier for a fair bill?

MeteredOut

MultiFuelBurner said:

So do you now compare yourself to the national average user, above or below as to your lifestyle. Using the Ofgems notion of the average user against the energy supplier for a fair bill?

Not quite worked that out yet -we’re away for a couple of weeks from today so I won’t have time to look into it in detail. But, we’re a high usage household - large ground floor with UFH and 4 metre double height  living/kitchen/dining area, so a big volume to heat, and the house envelope is not that tight. Usage has been recorded around 25K kWh/year for gas alone for the past few years. There’s definitely been less usage recorded since the smart meter went in at start of Dec compared to previous years, but it’s been milder too.

I’m going to see what EDF propose.

Stuart_

Wonderful news! I'm thrilled to hear that you've received a test result; it serves as further proof that the incrementing bug in gas meters is indeed real and continues to persist 11 years after it was first reported to Parliament. It's going to be interesting to see how EDF handle this. These issues should be resolved quickly not dragged out.

samn9

I have joined the forum to share my story.

Yesterday I took a gas meter reading and found that my meter says I have used about £500 worth of gas in the last three weeks. I live in a decently-insulated one-bed rabbit-hutch, live under electric blankets, barely have the heating on or use hot water, and would normally expect to pay £50-100 for a colder month.

The last time this happened was in June, where I supposedly used something like £100 of gas, I thought it was odd at the time but didn't question it as I thought gas meters were completely reliable. I thought I must have left a tap running or something. 

After Googling the energy meter model, I found this thread. It's a Landis E6S which I understand is the same make as Siemens essentially.

 It is showing code 'C' for what that's worth.

I have contacted my supplier (Octopus) and they have asked me to send a photo of the meter, and book in for a smart meter. I said that I want the meter testing. However given the issue may be intermittent I am worried nothing will be found.

I have carried out some of my own testing. I ran the boiler for a timed 90 mins and found no change at all in the meter, until a few hours later when it had suddenly increased. However the increase shown was equivalent to 50 kwH, my boiler is 26kw so over 90 mins I would only expect a 39 kwh increase. Maybe this is within range, but it seems odd the meter took so long to update?

I disabled my thermostat last night so that the heating would not come on overnight. I found that in the space of 8 hours, it had incremented by nearly 15 kwH by itself. I have not used any hot water so find this rather odd.

I am becoming concerned this thing will drain my bank account and I will be left with no proof and no recourse.

MeteredOut

Great to hear this thread has helped. I specifically named the thread with the meter as I suspect there will be others out there with this issue and wanted them to find it. The Siemans and the L+G E6S are effectively the same meter.

Don't let anyone replace the meter without first getting agreement it will be sent for a test (an OFMAT). Once its gone, you'll have no evidence that the issue. 

Do you recall when the diagnostic code first appear on the meter? You'll likely need to do a lot of work yourself to convince anyone of the issue.

A 26kW boiler is unlikely to run at full 100% for 90 minutes solid, so I doubt it could ever pull 39kWh, never mind 50kWh.

I'd recommend doing what I did, and isolate the gas from the meter, then set up a camera to record (or time-lapse photo) the meter incrementing. In my case, EDF completely ignored this evidence, but it is evidence I have and evidence that cannot realistically be refuted. This should hopefully be a bit easier now that we're moving into a bit of milder weather.

samn9

Many thanks for your comment.

I will be firm on the OFMAT test.

 I don't have any record of when it started showing C unfortunately. I used to take photos each time I took a meter reading but they've all been deleted which is a pain as I've no firm proof of when the big jump occurred.

Any tips on procuring/setting up the camera would be welcome, if there's a cheap way to get this setup. Maybe a dashcam off Amazon? It's in a visible spot in the front garden so nothing too high value although in my area it's unlikely it would be stolen.

Octopus have asked for a photo so they can start investigating. I have heard mixed reviews on their customer service, they are rated highly but comments on other forums say they drag their feet for months/years on sorting meter issues, and also that their customer service has plummeted over winter. I guess I will see.

MultiFuelBurner

samn9 said:

I have joined the forum to share my story.

Yesterday I took a gas meter reading and found that my meter says I have used about £500 worth of gas in the last three weeks. I live in a decently-insulated one-bed rabbit-hutch, live under electric blankets, barely have the heating on or use hot water, and would normally expect to pay £50-100 for a colder month.

The last time this happened was in June, where I supposedly used something like £100 of gas, I thought it was odd at the time but didn't question it as I thought gas meters were completely reliable. I thought I must have left a tap running or something. 

After Googling the energy meter model, I found this thread. It's a Landis E6S which I understand is the same make as Siemens essentially.

 It is showing code 'C' for what that's worth.

I have contacted my supplier (Octopus) and they have asked me to send a photo of the meter, and book in for a smart meter. I said that I want the meter testing. However given the issue may be intermittent I am worried nothing will be found.

I have carried out some of my own testing. I ran the boiler for a timed 90 mins and found no change at all in the meter, until a few hours later when it had suddenly increased. However the increase shown was equivalent to 50 kwH, my boiler is 26kw so over 90 mins I would only expect a 39 kwh increase. Maybe this is within range, but it seems odd the meter took so long to update?

I disabled my thermostat last night so that the heating would not come on overnight. I found that in the space of 8 hours, it had incremented by nearly 15 kwH by itself. I have not used any hot water so find this rather odd.

I am becoming concerned this thing will drain my bank account and I will be left with no proof and no recourse.

Are you definitely reading your meter, many shared, split properties (flats) have had mix ups with the wrong meter being attributed to the wrong property.

samn9

I did consider that, so I looked at the neighbour's meter as well during my 90 minute test. Their dial didn't visibly increase while I had my boiler on. Later when my neighbour came home, their meter started increasing. Theirs is an analogue one so I would expect no delay at all? 

samn9

I am going to try and set up a webcam with a long cable through a crack in my window to capture the meter.

Octopus have got back to me, they just said they have issued me an £85 refund, which in my view barely covers the overcharge. They've not admitted a fault with the meter , or explained how they calculated the refund. And they want me to book in for a smart meter but not mentioned testing. Not overly impressed with them so far, they don't seem to engage with what I am actually saying or explain what they are doing.

MeteredOut

samn9 said:

Many thanks for your comment.

I will be firm on the OFMAT test.

 I don't have any record of when it started showing C unfortunately. I used to take photos each time I took a meter reading but they've all been deleted which is a pain as I've no firm proof of when the big jump occurred.

Any tips on procuring/setting up the camera would be welcome, if there's a cheap way to get this setup. Maybe a dashcam off Amazon? It's in a visible spot in the front garden so nothing too high value although in my area it's unlikely it would be stolen.

Octopus have asked for a photo so they can start investigating. I have heard mixed reviews on their customer service, they are rated highly but comments on other forums say they drag their feet for months/years on sorting meter issues, and also that their customer service has plummeted over winter. I guess I will see.

I bought a cheap mini-tripod (similar to the below) and used the free (and very good) Lens Buddy app to do a time-lapse video, but I'm lucky in that we have an enclosed garden so I could leave it outside with no risk of it being stolen.



It is only C you're seeing on the digital display?. I saw that quite a lot, an E on 1 occasion, but mostly saw b and d.