Gas Meter Still Increasing Whilst Gas Isolated (Siemens/Landis+Gyr E6S)

MultiFuelBurner

Gerry1 said:

You need to shut the gas off using the lever next to the meter.  If the reading then changes it's proof positive that it's faulty.

@gerry1

I know you are super keen to attribute everything you can to being a smart meter issue to assist your crusade against them and to spread this view across the forum.

But this is the second time in as many weeks you have failed to read a post and claim another "smart meter" issue which this is not.

MultiFuelBurner

samn9 said:

A question for further down the road, once I get Octopus to agree the meter is faulty.

How would I calculate the money I'd want back for previous high readings?

 I moved into this place in Aug 2020 so have potentially been having faulty readings for 3.5 years. The only other month it's obviously wrong was June 2023, but it seems probable there have been many months where my gas reading has been higher than it should be. Obviously it's not possible to know exactly when the fault developed, or what impact it has had on my bills. So what would be a reasonable approach?

Once the meter is proved as faulty (it will have to undergo testing) then comes the back as forth on what might be reasonable and if you disagree an ombudsman service complaint. But in this case it's best to agree something with Octopus. One agreement could be to run the new meter for a period of time and assess but that's up to you how you handle this. 

It will be good for you to do as many tests as you can to gather how faulty it may be.

Gerry1

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

You need to shut the gas off using the lever next to the meter.  If the reading then changes it's proof positive that it's faulty.

@gerry1

I know you are super keen to attribute everything you can to being a smart meter issue to assist your crusade against them and to spread this view across the forum.

But this is the second time in as many weeks you have failed to read a post and claim another "smart meter" issue which this is not.

It wouldn't happen with an old style-mechanical gas meter.  The problem appears to be with electronic meters that rely on an internal battery, and these meters can misbehave when the battery becomes low, whether smart or non-smart.

So as far as I'm concerned if you have a mechanical gas meter it's one thing fewer to worry about: a gas smart meter will have a battery and some of these meters have been found to become so inaccurate that they can't be tested.

MultiFuelBurner

@Gerry1it is not a smart meter (end of discussion) 

Please stop disrupting threads with your anti smart meter rhetoric.

Zandoni

All the different types of gas meters cannot increment if they are capped off or the valve is closed. I left the industry just before the introduction of smart meters but I'm pretty sure they use the same speed of sound technology to measure gas, so this gives them the same potential to self increment. Hopefully the manufacturing has improved after earlier mistakes.

MeteredOut

MultiFuelBurner said:

samn9 said:

A question for further down the road, once I get Octopus to agree the meter is faulty.

How would I calculate the money I'd want back for previous high readings?

 I moved into this place in Aug 2020 so have potentially been having faulty readings for 3.5 years. The only other month it's obviously wrong was June 2023, but it seems probable there have been many months where my gas reading has been higher than it should be. Obviously it's not possible to know exactly when the fault developed, or what impact it has had on my bills. So what would be a reasonable approach?

Once the meter is proved as faulty (it will have to undergo testing) then comes the back as forth on what might be reasonable and if you disagree an ombudsman service complaint. But in this case it's best to agree something with Octopus. One agreement could be to run the new meter for a period of time and assess but that's up to you how you handle this. 

It will be good for you to do as many tests as you can to gather how faulty it may be.

This is the approach I'm going for, but does mean I'm effectively stuck with EDF for my Gas until after the summer where my heating is off and I can show EDF the true differences of the overreading. I'd otherwise plan to move to Octopus Tracker for Gas.

I've not heard from EDF since I got my meter test results letter over 2 weeks ago now; I dropped them a note yesterday asking for their thoughts.

Zandoni

Gerry1 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

You need to shut the gas off using the lever next to the meter.  If the reading then changes it's proof positive that it's faulty.

@gerry1

I know you are super keen to attribute everything you can to being a smart meter issue to assist your crusade against them and to spread this view across the forum.

But this is the second time in as many weeks you have failed to read a post and claim another "smart meter" issue which this is not.

It wouldn't happen with an old style-mechanical gas meter.  The problem appears to be with electronic meters that rely on an internal battery, and these meters can misbehave when the battery becomes low, whether smart or non-smart.

So as far as I'm concerned if you have a mechanical gas meter it's one thing fewer to worry about: a gas smart meter will have a battery and some of these meters have been found to become so inaccurate that they can't be tested.

It’s not just the battery, the biggest cause of self incrementing was dry solder joints on the sensors inside the meter, a low battery voltage certainly won’t help.

Gerry1

Given the critical importance of preventing serious overcharging (and undercharging), it's high time to make electronic gas meters more reliable and more accurate.  Amazingly, they're allowed to overcharge usage by 3%, equal to £22 for the average user !

Few customers will be aware of the potential problem, and fewer still will be able to prove it; they'll be told that it can't happen, and they'll be deterred by the risk of having to pay for an expensive test.

One solution would be for ultrasonic meters to have two measuring units whose readings had to agree within close tolerances, or perhaps only mechanical units should be used.  The latter could have a longer battery life if it were needed only for the ZigBee transmissions and not the metering process.

The improvements needn't be expensive: the cost of replacing the whole meter every few years when the battery goes low must be huge.

Judging by forum reports of gas meters with permanently blank screens, there also seem to be problems that (i) a low battery isn't always flagged up and actioned before it finally expires, and (ii) the stored data isn't extracted from the removed meter (an estimated reading is used instead).

The SMETS1 fiasco shows the pitfalls of rushing out an immature technology too far and too fast, and even now it seems that not all issues have been fully resolved.

samn9

Octopus have agreed to send it for the meter test so I look forward to that. They've also asked for the video.

They suggested that based on the % overreading measured in the independent test, they would adjust previous bills. This wouldn't be appropriate for my meter because it overreads even with nothing running through it, there's no fixed linear error.

Today my meter has started behaving itself, it did not budge since this morning (with the valve closed). I'm worried it will play nice when they get it in the lab as well. I will just have to try and collect more video.

Gerry1

It may well be temperature dependent, rather like trying to start a car with a failing battery on a cold day.

Wait until there's a frost early in the morning, or bung some gel freezer blocks in the meter cupboard !