Gas Meter Still Increasing Whilst Gas Isolated (Siemens/Landis+Gyr E6S)

MeteredOut

Still no word back from EDF on how the test is going, but I've not chased them. I figure I won't know till the summer (when the heating is off) as to the true extent of the over-reading, so there's little point.

Anecdotally, in the meantime: I've had the smart meter for 70 days, and my gas usage during that period is 15% lower than for the same dates the for the previous year.

And for years to prior to that, the last 70 days is around 20% lower than the rough equivalent periods. I don't have as many readings for those years, so I had to pro-rata some calculations.

FreeBear

MeteredOut said: Anecdotally, in the meantime: I've had the smart meter for 70 days, and my gas usage during that period is 15% lower than for the same dates the for the previous year.

The latter half of December and all of January have been noticeably milder than previous years. My gas consumption has been quite a bit lower as a result (and also helped by having a new boiler).

Zandoni

MeteredOut said:

Still no word back from EDF on how the test is going, but I've not chased them. I figure I won't know till the summer (when the heating is off) as to the true extent of the over-reading, so there's little point.

In my day as a meter examiner I was required by the gas act to send a test certificate to the consumer and to the gas company, I doubt that has changed.

MeteredOut

Zandoni said:

MeteredOut said:

Still no word back from EDF on how the test is going, but I've not chased them. I figure I won't know till the summer (when the heating is off) as to the true extent of the over-reading, so there's little point.

In my day as a meter examiner I was required by the gas act to send a test certificate to the consumer and to the gas company, I doubt that has changed.

Yes, I've definitely read (if not been told) it has to be sent to both the supplier and the consumer.

Stuart_

When my meter was sent for testing EDF told me the testing company had 65 days to complete the test.

Without a test certificate saying it's faulty EDF are unlikely to agree with you that your meter was faulty. Even if you have evidence.

The ombudsman are also likely to agree with EDF. Even if you have evidence.

It might be worth checking with EDF to see if your meter arrived with the testing company.

There seems to be no consequences for an energy company failing to send a meter away for testing, there should be insurance against such failures as it puts the consumer at a significant disadvantage.

MeteredOut

Stuart_ said:

When my meter was sent for testing EDF told me the testing company had 65 days to complete the test.

Without a test certificate saying it's faulty EDF are unlikely to agree with you that your meter was faulty. Even if you have evidence.

The ombudsman are also likely to agree with EDF. Even if you have evidence.

It might be worth checking with EDF to see if your meter arrived with the testing company.

There seems to be no consequences for an energy company failing to send a meter away for testing, there should be insurance against such failures as it puts the consumer at a significant disadvantage.

I had confirmation from EDF (end of December) that they were "still working to receive the results of the OFMAT test from your removed gas meter."

Not quite a statement that it had arrived at the testing company, but its as much as they would say after a lot of chasing. Thanks for the 65 days note - was yours a gas meter too? Mine's has been over 70 days now so I might just pop them a response and see what they say.

If EDF ultimately come back and say the meter is working, and the Ombudsman refuse to do anything, its small claims court next. I have irrefutable video and time-lapse-photo evidence of the meter incrementing even though the isolator valve to the meter was fully off.

pfpf

just out of interest MO. and i haven't read the entire thread. just going on your final paragraph, what financial loss have you determined you would be claiming in the small claims court?

MeteredOut

pfpf said:

just out of interest MO. and i haven't read the entire thread. just going on your final paragraph, what financial loss have you determined you would be claiming in the small claims court?

It's hard to determine exactly, since the issue was intermittent (and had stopped manifesting itself for the period just before the meter was removed), and I didn't have many photos of meter readings before August 2022.

But, some high level comparison versus previous years makes me think it's around £500-600 over 2022 and 2023. I first noticed the issue in August 2022. I've been with EDF since November 2021. The earliest photo I have of the meter with an error diagnostic code is August 2021.

If it gets to small claims, I'd put together a model showing calcs. In the end, it'd have to be based on some assumptions. I've not looked to bring local weather/temperature into account when doing comparisons so far, but might add that in.

You really should read the whole thread. I'm sure the Telegraph book review page would regard it as unputdownable!

Stuart_

My meter was the same as yours an E6 ultrasonic with the incrementing bug.

My meter was lost and never arrived with the testing company. I chased EDF after 75 days and they admitted it was lost. I spent weeks trying to get EDF to look at my evidence but they wouldn't comment on it, eventually I wrote to their legal department and they gave me a deadlock letter.

I went to the ombudsman and they ruled in my favor thanks to the videos but only half my case was investigated as I was caught up in the supplier of last resort mess. When I complained to the ombudsman they told me twice that my meter should never have been ruled to be faulty by them in the first place as the increments were only in the red section of the meter. I was shocked that they were trying to undermine their own final result.

I contacted my MP - Graham Stuart who is the minister for Energy Security and Net Zero who said he would write to EDF for me to try to sort it out. Otherwise I'll be going to the small claims court too.

I've also had extensive chats with Ray Cope who first brought the incrementing bug issue to Parliament 10 years ago. He told me he's helped several people try to navigate the ombudsman with this issue, he told me the ombudsman are useless even the top brass can't understand it.

I can't understand why these meters are still being used if there is a known problem with them randomly jumping.

Also if you're struggling to get a reply from EDF you can try emailing CEO-Team@edfenergy.com

I hope that helps!

MeteredOut

Stuart_ said:

My meter was the same as yours an E6 ultrasonic with the incrementing bug.

My meter was lost and never arrived with the testing company. I chased EDF after 75 days and they admitted it was lost. I spent weeks trying to get EDF to look at my evidence but they wouldn't comment on it, eventually I wrote to their legal department and they gave me a deadlock letter.

I went to the ombudsman and they ruled in my favor thanks to the videos but only half my case was investigated as I was caught up in the supplier of last resort mess. When I complained to the ombudsman they told me twice that my meter should never have been ruled to be faulty by them in the first place as the increments were only in the red section of the meter. I was shocked that they were trying to undermine their own final result.

I contacted my MP - Graham Stuart who is the minister for Energy Security and Net Zero who said he would write to EDF for me to try to sort it out. Otherwise I'll be going to the small claims court too.

I've also had extensive chats with Ray Cope who first brought the incrementing bug issue to Parliament 10 years ago. He told me he's helped several people try to navigate the ombudsman with this issue, he told me the ombudsman are useless even the top brass can't understand it.

I can't understand why these meters are still being used if there is a known problem with them randomly jumping.

Also if you're struggling to get a reply from EDF you can try emailing CEO-Team@edfenergy.com

I hope that helps!

When i spoke to the Ombudsman, I suggested there could be a huge number of people with these meters still being overcharged. He tried to assure me that they would pick up on any trends through escalations to them, but didn't have an answer when I pointed out that did not cover the cases like mine when the incrementing is not obviously apparent without some time-consuming investigation on the behalf of the householder.

I went back and re-read the 2013 Ray Cope report you pointed me to previously. I'm still astounded that these meters produce readings that can vary so much based on the ambiant temperature.

"The purpose of this paper is to explain in non-technical terms the reasons why there are such serious billing inaccuracies for some consumers in gas measurement. At the extreme margins they could range from undercharging of 12% to overcharging of 14.7%."

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmenergy/108/108vw02.htm