No Fault Evictions {Merged}

MultiFuelBurner

Yellowsub2000 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

What LL in their right mind is going to let to those on universal credit or housing benefit?

If the housing departments default line is stay until a court order.

Its even worse then that, if you leave before an enforcement officer shows up to change the locks and boot you out, then its "intentionally homeless".

That nonsensical policy clearly needs banning.  It basically forces a longer period of no rent on a LL for no good reason other than for the council to kick the can down the road for a few extra weeks.

You are right, that's why we are very picky now about who we let to. Rightly or wrongly certain groups of the population will not be able.to.rent from us in the future unless there is a bonafide guarantor.

I suspect you will have very long void periods where you just can’t find a tenant 

Why?

Last property advertised with just an A4 advert in the window. 30+ applicants without any formal advertising. The choice we made was a couple both employed with parents as guarantor. We turned down the local council rent upfront bribe knowing if they get into rent arrears the local council will tell them to stay put and wait for court action (that's not our business model now, it has been in the past but that's unsustainable moving forward).

We expect those that are made homeless to fill bed and breakfasts and this is all down to the rent reform bill likely to come into force in 2024. So when they end up 4 to one room in a nasty B&B and if they are lucky with a shared bathroom they know who they can blame.

caprikid1

Yellowsub2000 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

What LL in their right mind is going to let to those on universal credit or housing benefit?

If the housing departments default line is stay until a court order.

Its even worse then that, if you leave before an enforcement officer shows up to change the locks and boot you out, then its "intentionally homeless".

That nonsensical policy clearly needs banning.  It basically forces a longer period of no rent on a LL for no good reason other than for the council to kick the can down the road for a few extra weeks.

You are right, that's why we are very picky now about who we let to. Rightly or wrongly certain groups of the population will not be able.to.rent from us in the future unless there is a bonafide guarantor.

I suspect you will have very long void periods where you just can’t find a tenant 

The current supply of property means a fussy landlord only waits , days... when this legislation gets fully embedded and more supply leaves the market there will be no issue what so ever.

I appreciate you are a Tenant and understand fully from your own perspective, having been a landlord in different cities for many years I'd like to think I have over 20 years experience in this sector and understand the market.

Sunsaru

caprikid1 said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

What LL in their right mind is going to let to those on universal credit or housing benefit?

If the housing departments default line is stay until a court order.

Its even worse then that, if you leave before an enforcement officer shows up to change the locks and boot you out, then its "intentionally homeless".

That nonsensical policy clearly needs banning.  It basically forces a longer period of no rent on a LL for no good reason other than for the council to kick the can down the road for a few extra weeks.

You are right, that's why we are very picky now about who we let to. Rightly or wrongly certain groups of the population will not be able.to.rent from us in the future unless there is a bonafide guarantor.

I suspect you will have very long void periods where you just can’t find a tenant 

The current supply of property means a fussy landlord only waits , days... when this legislation gets fully embedded and more supply leaves the market there will be no issue what so ever.

I appreciate you are a Tenant and understand fully from your own perspective, having been a landlord in different cities for many years I'd like to think I have over 20 years experience in this sector and understand the market.

However, you are not Chris from Youtube therefore your words/experience/insights mean nothing.

jimbog

Yellowsub2000 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

eddddy said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

This is where we will have to agree to disagree like gentlemen.

That sounds a bit like you're attempting a face-saving cop-out - and playing with words.

People sometimes come to this forum for advice. So I think it's important to be as accurate as possible.

If you think what I said was materially misleading, please point to specific clauses in the bill to support that. Maybe you've seen something that I missed.

Here's the bill: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0308/220308.pdf

The fact that there is a bill and changes coming in is why I disagree with you saying everything will be exactly the same as today.

im certain you are wrong about this, the scrapping of no fault eviction, the new ombudsman scheme which will cost the LL but free for tenants, the £25K fines for LLs if they are found to have been deceptive 

I could go on but there is no need

Exactly, the BTL model changed as soon as rates went up, more legislation means even more change, you are entirely correct the old model is gone, I think it is the pace of change which has shocked people though?

moving home with Charlie and other prop bears are speaking the truth 

if Charlie from YouTube has said so then it must be true

Tucosalamanca

jimbog said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

eddddy said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

This is where we will have to agree to disagree like gentlemen.

That sounds a bit like you're attempting a face-saving cop-out - and playing with words.

People sometimes come to this forum for advice. So I think it's important to be as accurate as possible.

If you think what I said was materially misleading, please point to specific clauses in the bill to support that. Maybe you've seen something that I missed.

Here's the bill: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0308/220308.pdf

The fact that there is a bill and changes coming in is why I disagree with you saying everything will be exactly the same as today.

im certain you are wrong about this, the scrapping of no fault eviction, the new ombudsman scheme which will cost the LL but free for tenants, the £25K fines for LLs if they are found to have been deceptive 

I could go on but there is no need

Exactly, the BTL model changed as soon as rates went up, more legislation means even more change, you are entirely correct the old model is gone, I think it is the pace of change which has shocked people though?

moving home with Charlie and other prop bears are speaking the truth 

if Charlie from YouTube has said so then it must be true

jimbog said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

eddddy said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

This is where we will have to agree to disagree like gentlemen.

That sounds a bit like you're attempting a face-saving cop-out - and playing with words.

People sometimes come to this forum for advice. So I think it's important to be as accurate as possible.

If you think what I said was materially misleading, please point to specific clauses in the bill to support that. Maybe you've seen something that I missed.

Here's the bill: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0308/220308.pdf

The fact that there is a bill and changes coming in is why I disagree with you saying everything will be exactly the same as today.

im certain you are wrong about this, the scrapping of no fault eviction, the new ombudsman scheme which will cost the LL but free for tenants, the £25K fines for LLs if they are found to have been deceptive 

I could go on but there is no need

Exactly, the BTL model changed as soon as rates went up, more legislation means even more change, you are entirely correct the old model is gone, I think it is the pace of change which has shocked people though?

moving home with Charlie and other prop bears are speaking the truth 

if Charlie from YouTube has said so then it must be true

I'm sure we all have that one friend on Facebook... 

Chrysalis

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Sarah1Mitty2

Yellowsub2000 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

eddddy said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

This is where we will have to agree to disagree like gentlemen.

That sounds a bit like you're attempting a face-saving cop-out - and playing with words.

People sometimes come to this forum for advice. So I think it's important to be as accurate as possible.

If you think what I said was materially misleading, please point to specific clauses in the bill to support that. Maybe you've seen something that I missed.

Here's the bill: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0308/220308.pdf

The fact that there is a bill and changes coming in is why I disagree with you saying everything will be exactly the same as today.

im certain you are wrong about this, the scrapping of no fault eviction, the new ombudsman scheme which will cost the LL but free for tenants, the £25K fines for LLs if they are found to have been deceptive 

I could go on but there is no need

Exactly, the BTL model changed as soon as rates went up, more legislation means even more change, you are entirely correct the old model is gone, I think it is the pace of change which has shocked people though?

Yes the speed of change has shocked so many this is evident by the perma prop bulls on here still in denial.

moving home with Charlie and other prop bears are speaking the truth about a 50% real term house price crash over the next five years and the perma prop bulls just can’t get their head round it

Yes, many people don`t cope well with change, some of the more clued up posters have been flagging up that this change was inevitable for some time though.

Brie

A few years back and in a different country my mom had rental property and would occasionally take offense at a tenant for some reason (had the heating on and the windows open, didn't keep the flat spotless, annoying but not illegal stuff).  And she'd tell them to leave.  That's what I think would be considered no fault evictions.  As opposed to something that is noted in the tenancy that the tenant doesn't comply with.  (no smoking building etc).  

(mom's problem was that early on she had some star tenants - the sort that always pay their rent on time, never complain about anything, and don't bother anyone, including mom.  Then after 20+ years people moved on and she had to deal with some less than ideal people and she'd compare them to the stars she'd had there for decades - they never had a chance.)

MultiFuelBurner

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

Chrysalis

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 

2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.

3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

--

Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.