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No Fault Evictions {Merged}

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  • ProDave
    ProDave Posts: 3,785 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 24 January at 5:59PM
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    ProDave said:
    user1977 said:
    BungalowBel said:
    BikingBud said:
    BungalowBel said:
    [Deleted User] said:
    This is good news. Landlords can't be trusted with no fault evictions.

    It will take time but as they leave the market better landlords will take up, and prices will fall so renters can buy.

    Combined with 100% mortgages accounting for rent payments, hopefully many will be able to buy the place they are already in at a nice discount.

    Landlords like me will just sell up.  I am a good landlord who complies with all the legislation.  It will be landlords like me who suffer from these new rules.  If I can't get my property back for eighteen months  because a tenant won't leave, then I would rather not take the risk of renting it out.

    Rogue landlords don't comply with the legislation anyway so new legislation won't make any difference to them.
    But if you are a good landlord and happy providing a service for a fair rent what do you feel will changes that you feel the need to get your house back urgently?
    My worry is, that with legislation changing so fast, that there will come a time when I won't be able to get my flat back under ANY (or very restricted) circumstances.

    What's given you that idea? This is the first significant change to principles since s.21 came into force in - what, 1988? New laws every 35 years or so doesn't seem particularly fast to me.

    Who's proposing to row things back even further?
    Well in Scotland this is far from the first change since 1988, we have had compulsory LL registration, compulsory smoke alarms, EICR's legionairs risk assesment, minimum EPC requirements, giving tenants a right to a rent holiday during Covid (no compensation for landlords still paying a mortgage) rent rise cap and (supposedly) temporary ban on evictions due to cost of living crisis etc.

    England, take note of where it has already gone in Scotland.

    So one of the many reasons I am exiting the business is I can't help thinking "what next"?

    Then there are all the changes in tax rules so a lot of what was allowable expenses no longer are, so more income tax to pay.

    Bit by bit, it is becoming a hostile market to try and operate in.
    How many properties do you rent out if you don't mind me asking?
    Just the one now, and not for much longer.
  • MultiFuelBurner
    MultiFuelBurner Posts: 2,928 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 24 January at 5:59PM
    ProDave said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    ProDave said:
    user1977 said:
    BungalowBel said:
    BikingBud said:
    BungalowBel said:
    [Deleted User] said:
    This is good news. Landlords can't be trusted with no fault evictions.

    It will take time but as they leave the market better landlords will take up, and prices will fall so renters can buy.

    Combined with 100% mortgages accounting for rent payments, hopefully many will be able to buy the place they are already in at a nice discount.

    Landlords like me will just sell up.  I am a good landlord who complies with all the legislation.  It will be landlords like me who suffer from these new rules.  If I can't get my property back for eighteen months  because a tenant won't leave, then I would rather not take the risk of renting it out.

    Rogue landlords don't comply with the legislation anyway so new legislation won't make any difference to them.
    But if you are a good landlord and happy providing a service for a fair rent what do you feel will changes that you feel the need to get your house back urgently?
    My worry is, that with legislation changing so fast, that there will come a time when I won't be able to get my flat back under ANY (or very restricted) circumstances.

    What's given you that idea? This is the first significant change to principles since s.21 came into force in - what, 1988? New laws every 35 years or so doesn't seem particularly fast to me.

    Who's proposing to row things back even further?
    Well in Scotland this is far from the first change since 1988, we have had compulsory LL registration, compulsory smoke alarms, EICR's legionairs risk assesment, minimum EPC requirements, giving tenants a right to a rent holiday during Covid (no compensation for landlords still paying a mortgage) rent rise cap and (supposedly) temporary ban on evictions due to cost of living crisis etc.

    England, take note of where it has already gone in Scotland.

    So one of the many reasons I am exiting the business is I can't help thinking "what next"?

    Then there are all the changes in tax rules so a lot of what was allowable expenses no longer are, so more income tax to pay.

    Bit by bit, it is becoming a hostile market to try and operate in.
    How many properties do you rent out if you don't mind me asking?
    Just the one now, and not for much longer.
    As per my answer to another single property LL I think that's the right thing to do considering the uncertainty.

    For multi property LL's they can take a few hits as they come along.
  • Yellowsub2000
    Yellowsub2000 Posts: 210 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper
    theartfullodger said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    BungalowBel said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    ProDave said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    LegallyLandlord said:
    Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

    ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.


    There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

    Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.





    These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

    LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

    Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.
    And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

    What are the reasons?

    You seen the state of the rental market?

    If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

    My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

    Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.
    Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

    Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

    I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

    One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

    If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

    However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

    My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

    Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

    Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

    Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

    1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 
    2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.
    3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

    The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

    However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

    Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

    In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

    I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

    --

    Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

    I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.
    Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.
    You won’t be able to that’s the point.

    You could try selling with a tenant in but that’s going to be very hard
    Rubbish, it's easy.

    I bought one.  As did one of my sons. Exactly what difficulty in selling do you foresee please?  i.e. tell us of one that is (your words) "very difficult" please. Selling at a lower price is dead easy..
    Yes if you don’t mind lower price then sell with tenants in

    the market will be flooded with properties wry cheap but the only problem is they have awkward tenants in 

    they will keep contacting the ombudsman saying the LL needs to do this or that and everytime it cost the LL but free for the tenants 
  • noitsnotme
    noitsnotme Posts: 1,331 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 21 May 2023 at 8:31PM
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    theartfullodger said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    BungalowBel said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    ProDave said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    LegallyLandlord said:
    Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

    ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.


    There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

    Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.





    These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

    LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

    Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.
    And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

    What are the reasons?

    You seen the state of the rental market?

    If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

    My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

    Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.
    Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

    Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

    I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

    One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

    If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

    However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

    My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

    Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

    Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

    Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

    1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 
    2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.
    3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

    The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

    However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

    Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

    In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

    I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

    --

    Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

    I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.
    Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.
    You won’t be able to that’s the point.

    You could try selling with a tenant in but that’s going to be very hard
    Rubbish, it's easy.

    I bought one.  As did one of my sons. Exactly what difficulty in selling do you foresee please?  i.e. tell us of one that is (your words) "very difficult" please. Selling at a lower price is dead easy..

    they will keep contacting the ombudsman saying the LL needs to do this or that and everytime it cost the LL but free for the tenants 
    This is more nonsense.  It won’t be like the financial ombudsman where a financial institution has to pay just for a complaint being referred to the ombudsman.

    The proposal for the new rental ombudsman is that landlords will be required to pay a joining fee and then ‘might’ have to pay compensation if they don’t resolve a dispute.

    There is nothing that proposes that landlords will have to pay every time a tenant complains to the ombudsman. 

  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,724 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 24 January at 5:59PM
    BungalowBel said:
    BikingBud said:
    BungalowBel said:
    [Deleted User] said:
    This is good news. Landlords can't be trusted with no fault evictions.

    It will take time but as they leave the market better landlords will take up, and prices will fall so renters can buy.

    Combined with 100% mortgages accounting for rent payments, hopefully many will be able to buy the place they are already in at a nice discount.

    Landlords like me will just sell up.  I am a good landlord who complies with all the legislation.  It will be landlords like me who suffer from these new rules.  If I can't get my property back for eighteen months  because a tenant won't leave, then I would rather not take the risk of renting it out.

    Rogue landlords don't comply with the legislation anyway so new legislation won't make any difference to them.
    But if you are a good landlord and happy providing a service for a fair rent what do you feel will changes that you feel the need to get your house back urgently?
    I provide a nice modern flat at a decent rent and have good tenants.  Normally I would be quite happy with this state of affairs.

    My worry is, that with legislation changing so fast, that there will come a time when I won't be able to get my flat back under ANY (or very restricted)   circumstances.  If these changes can happen under a Conservative Government, who knows what will happen when Labour get in. I might not always have such good tenants as I have now and I may be stuck with bad tenants who don't pay rent and trash the flat.

    Also my husband and I are in our seventies and think we have reached the time of life when we don't want to jump through any more hoops.  And in the end, this is our property.

    Therefore I would like to sell the flat and invest the money instead..

    We are going to offer our tenants first refusal (and a small reduction from the valuation).

    There should be something in the reform to get possession back should you e.g no longer want to rent it out at all (to move in or sell it).

    If they damage the property you can use S8, if they stop paying rent, you can S8.

    I am curious how many LLs have used S21 or felt S21 was the means to evict for legitimate reasons without realising there is other processes in place for it.

    The holes that do exist, for e.g. evicting antisocial tenants, are aimed to be fix in the reform, including making S8 eviction faster.  Its not one sided reform.
  • Chrysalis
    Chrysalis Posts: 4,724 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    ProDave said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    LegallyLandlord said:
    Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

    ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.


    There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

    Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.





    These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

    LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

    Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.
    And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

    What are the reasons?

    You seen the state of the rental market?

    If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

    My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

    Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.
    Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

    Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

    I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

    One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

    If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

    However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

    My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

    Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

    Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

    Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

    1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 
    2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.
    3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

    The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

    However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

    Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

    In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

    I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

    --

    Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

    I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.
    Thanks for the history I have a friend in a similar position very cheap rent for 15 years but then again he knew the property was not up to code so to speak. The LL in the past 3 years has rectified that with an actual EPC and the associated new windows/doors and the rent has also increased but not to market rate as he is a gold dust tenant never missed a payment, does not moan about anything and fixes things himself.

    It is interesting to hear than tenants fear brining up issues for fear of having to pay for fixes through their rent. We have never thought of it this was in our business plan as we knew a portion of rent received was always destined for repairs and renovation. We are currently bolstering the business account ready for any changes that become legislation in 2025 for the EPC changes.

    However on a brighter note it sounds like you are well onto your own home ownership, so congratulations 👍

    Now onto the sticky question of the rent reform bill.

    We have been in the rental business for 20+ years and have extensive records and we go on the data we have. Those that have caused the most damage and accrued the most rent arrears sadly were those on benefits. We have worked closely with the Local Authority for many of those 20+ years taking in tenants where we can many times on reduced rents but this act of social kindness has backfired.

    With the upcoming rent reform bill set to land in 2024 we have decided (rightly or wrongly) our business model is not to be a guinea pig for the Rent Reform Bill and the LA. We have assessed the risk considering what we have to put in monetary wise for this plus the potential future 2025 EPC changes and we have to take this stance to continue in this business with minimal risk.

    I welcome other LL's opinions about their business plans with such a shift in legislation in 2024/2025 and what they are planning to do.






    It does sound like you are one of the better LLs and thank you for explaining more your reasoning.

    I think when S21 was originally devised there was an element of trust that it wouldnt be abused, and sadly when something gets abused it can ruin it for everyone.  So the good LLs who are now fearful of things becoming much harder for them, are arguably victims in the changes which have come about due to some people taking advantage of the system.  Of course there is also tenants who take advantage of the system such as deciding to not pay rent for a few months knowing that the eviction process takes time so get a few months of free accommodation, I dont condone that.  I take great pride in making sure I pay my bills and take care to the best of my ability the home I live in, respecting its someone else's property.

    I also aim to be as social as possible, using headphones e.g. when I watch a movie or listen to music, or when playing games.

    This is also why I am no fan of the S24 changes, as all it was, was to reduce a LLs profit with no sound reasoning as well as little understanding of the consequences.   The LL reform however having read through it has clearly had some considerable effort and thought process put into it.  With improvements in there for both LLs and tenants, if you havent read through it I suggest you do.

    Yes I also am well on the path now to buying a home route.
  • Yellowsub2000
    Yellowsub2000 Posts: 210 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper
    noitsnotme said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    theartfullodger said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    BungalowBel said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    MultiFuelBurner said:
    Chrysalis said:
    ProDave said:
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    LegallyLandlord said:
    Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

    ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.


    There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

    Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.





    These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

    LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

    Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.
    And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

    What are the reasons?

    You seen the state of the rental market?

    If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

    My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

    Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.
    Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

    Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

    I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

    One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

    If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

    However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

    My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

    Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

    Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

    Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

    1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 
    2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.
    3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

    The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

    However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

    Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

    In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

    I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

    --

    Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

    I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.
    Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.
    You won’t be able to that’s the point.

    You could try selling with a tenant in but that’s going to be very hard
    Rubbish, it's easy.

    I bought one.  As did one of my sons. Exactly what difficulty in selling do you foresee please?  i.e. tell us of one that is (your words) "very difficult" please. Selling at a lower price is dead easy..

    they will keep contacting the ombudsman saying the LL needs to do this or that and everytime it cost the LL but free for the tenants 
    This is more nonsense.  It won’t be like the financial ombudsman where a financial institution has to pay just for a complaint being referred to the ombudsman.

    The proposal for the new rental ombudsman is that landlords will be required to pay a joining fee and then ‘might’ have to pay compensation if they don’t resolve a dispute.

    There is nothing that proposes that landlords will have to pay every time a tenant complains to the ombudsman. 

    The way it seems to be is that the ombudsman is free for tenants but will cost for LLs.

    if the tenants have a genuine complaint like something broken or maybe pest control or something needs repairs 

    At the moment many tenants are asking LLs to correct an issue and they don’t get around to it

    the ombudsman will change everything 
  • Yellowsub2000
    Yellowsub2000 Posts: 210 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper
    The good news is many bad LLs will be fined the £25K now this ombudsman will not let them get away with it.

    I have a heard a few times of a tenant trying to sort out a problem themselves like pest control or wash machine fridge or cooker problems.

    sometimes someone says to them tell your LL they have the responsibility to sort it out and the tenants just say the LL knows about it but doesn’t do anything 

    this ombudsman will change all that
  • anselld
    anselld Posts: 8,646 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Yellowsub2000 said:
    The good news is many bad LLs will be fined the £25K now this ombudsman will not let them get away with it.

    I have a heard a few times of a tenant trying to sort out a problem themselves like pest control or wash machine fridge or cooker problems.

    sometimes someone says to them tell your LL they have the responsibility to sort it out and the tenants just say the LL knows about it but doesn’t do anything 

    this ombudsman will change all that
    Pest control is normally a tenant responsibility anyway, unless it is a direct result of disrepair.  White goods depends what is in the contract.  Don't assume an Ombudsman will always side with the T.

    The odd thing about this Ombudsman proposal is that Agents are already required to be members.  If all Landlords must also have another Ombudsman then there are now two to choose from at double the cost to the L (which will ultimately be passed on in higher rent).  Ok it will pick up the minority of Ls who self manage but it seems to be bureaucratic overkill for the majority.
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