No Fault Evictions {Merged}

Sarah1Mitty2

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Have you done a rental search recently using PropertyLog? Have you asked around to see if anyone knows someone with property to let, have you looked at other advertising methods other than RM and online portals such as bulletin boards or newspaper ads?

theartfullodger

As in Scotland now....

Chrysalis

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Have you done a rental search recently using PropertyLog? Have you asked around to see if anyone knows someone with property to let, have you looked at other advertising methods other than RM and online portals such as bulletin boards or newspaper ads?

Never heard of propertylog until your post, but its description says its basically only RM?

What is property log?

Property Log is a Google Chrome extension for tracking property price changes on the Rightmove website. When installed it will add a useful block of information to the website (as seen below).

Being honest, for it to be worth me risking a new landlord, the rent would have to be considerably cheaper, or a tenancy of at least a 3 year period. A year is nothing, you sneeze its gone,  never mind 6 months. I would rather be where I am now than moving annually.  But after the reforms I think it opens it up.

I maintain the opinion renting privately is a mine field, hence my plan of buying my next home.

--

Have you actually been on the rental market any time recently (as a tenant), because you seem to be indicating its a case of not trying hard enough, with the asking around comment.  There is a reason for all the recent news articles about the market been broken.  I did find a place I was interested in last summer, and was told not only was it already gone, but all other properties currently been advertised also were gone, they were using the adverts to hoover up applicants, and then properties would be sent out for a bidding process, there was actually no need for them to put actual vacant properties up as demand is high.  Thats the nature of whats going on now.

Kind of how job agencies work, they advertise pretend jobs, sign up a bunch of people so when they do get positions they have people right away to fill those jobs.

BungalowBel

BikingBud said:

BungalowBel said:

[Deleted User] said:

This is good news. Landlords can't be trusted with no fault evictions.

It will take time but as they leave the market better landlords will take up, and prices will fall so renters can buy.

Combined with 100% mortgages accounting for rent payments, hopefully many will be able to buy the place they are already in at a nice discount.

Landlords like me will just sell up.  I am a good landlord who complies with all the legislation.  It will be landlords like me who suffer from these new rules.  If I can't get my property back for eighteen months  because a tenant won't leave, then I would rather not take the risk of renting it out.

Rogue landlords don't comply with the legislation anyway so new legislation won't make any difference to them.

But if you are a good landlord and happy providing a service for a fair rent what do you feel will changes that you feel the need to get your house back urgently?

I provide a nice modern flat at a decent rent and have good tenants.  Normally I would be quite happy with this state of affairs.

My worry is, that with legislation changing so fast, that there will come a time when I won't be able to get my flat back under ANY (or very restricted)   circumstances.  If these changes can happen under a Conservative Government, who knows what will happen when Labour get in. I might not always have such good tenants as I have now and I may be stuck with bad tenants who don't pay rent and trash the flat.

Also my husband and I are in our seventies and think we have reached the time of life when we don't want to jump through any more hoops.  And in the end, this is our property.

Therefore I would like to sell the flat and invest the money instead..

We are going to offer our tenants first refusal (and a small reduction from the valuation).

MultiFuelBurner

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 

2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.

3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

--

Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.

Thanks for the history I have a friend in a similar position very cheap rent for 15 years but then again he knew the property was not up to code so to speak. The LL in the past 3 years has rectified that with an actual EPC and the associated new windows/doors and the rent has also increased but not to market rate as he is a gold dust tenant never missed a payment, does not moan about anything and fixes things himself.

It is interesting to hear than tenants fear brining up issues for fear of having to pay for fixes through their rent. We have never thought of it this was in our business plan as we knew a portion of rent received was always destined for repairs and renovation. We are currently bolstering the business account ready for any changes that become legislation in 2025 for the EPC changes.

However on a brighter note it sounds like you are well onto your own home ownership, so congratulations 👍

Now onto the sticky question of the rent reform bill.

We have been in the rental business for 20+ years and have extensive records and we go on the data we have. Those that have caused the most damage and accrued the most rent arrears sadly were those on benefits. We have worked closely with the Local Authority for many of those 20+ years taking in tenants where we can many times on reduced rents but this act of social kindness has backfired.

With the upcoming rent reform bill set to land in 2024 we have decided (rightly or wrongly) our business model is not to be a guinea pig for the Rent Reform Bill and the LA. We have assessed the risk considering what we have to put in monetary wise for this plus the potential future 2025 EPC changes and we have to take this stance to continue in this business with minimal risk.

I welcome other LL's opinions about their business plans with such a shift in legislation in 2024/2025 and what they are planning to do.

BungalowBel

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 

2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.

3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

--

Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.

Thanks for the history I have a friend in a similar position very cheap rent for 15 years but then again he knew the property was not up to code so to speak. The LL in the past 3 years has rectified that with an actual EPC and the associated new windows/doors and the rent has also increased but not to market rate as he is a gold dust tenant never missed a payment, does not moan about anything and fixes things himself.

It is interesting to hear than tenants fear brining up issues for fear of having to pay for fixes through their rent. We have never thought of it this was in our business plan as we knew a portion of rent received was always destined for repairs and renovation. We are currently bolstering the business account ready for any changes that become legislation in 2025 for the EPC changes.

However on a brighter note it sounds like you are well onto your own home ownership, so congratulations 👍

Now onto the sticky question of the rent reform bill.

We have been in the rental business for 20+ years and have extensive records and we go on the data we have. Those that have caused the most damage and accrued the most rent arrears sadly were those on benefits. We have worked closely with the Local Authority for many of those 20+ years taking in tenants where we can many times on reduced rents but this act of social kindness has backfired.

With the upcoming rent reform bill set to land in 2024 we have decided (rightly or wrongly) our business model is not to be a guinea pig for the Rent Reform Bill and the LA. We have assessed the risk considering what we have to put in monetary wise for this plus the potential future 2025 EPC changes and we have to take this stance to continue in this business with minimal risk.

I welcome other LL's opinions about their business plans with such a shift in legislation in 2024/2025 and what they are planning to do.

We only have the one flat that we rent out.  It was bought with the proceeds of an inheritance so we have never had a mortgage on it.  It seemed like a  prudent  investment for my aunt's kind gesture.

Looking at it purely from our point of view, this is our investment and we do not want to risk never being able to realise its monetary value.  We also have come to the point where we don't want to jump through ever smaller and more complicated hoops. Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.

MultiFuelBurner

BungalowBel said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 

2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.

3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

--

Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.

Thanks for the history I have a friend in a similar position very cheap rent for 15 years but then again he knew the property was not up to code so to speak. The LL in the past 3 years has rectified that with an actual EPC and the associated new windows/doors and the rent has also increased but not to market rate as he is a gold dust tenant never missed a payment, does not moan about anything and fixes things himself.

It is interesting to hear than tenants fear brining up issues for fear of having to pay for fixes through their rent. We have never thought of it this was in our business plan as we knew a portion of rent received was always destined for repairs and renovation. We are currently bolstering the business account ready for any changes that become legislation in 2025 for the EPC changes.

However on a brighter note it sounds like you are well onto your own home ownership, so congratulations 👍

Now onto the sticky question of the rent reform bill.

We have been in the rental business for 20+ years and have extensive records and we go on the data we have. Those that have caused the most damage and accrued the most rent arrears sadly were those on benefits. We have worked closely with the Local Authority for many of those 20+ years taking in tenants where we can many times on reduced rents but this act of social kindness has backfired.

With the upcoming rent reform bill set to land in 2024 we have decided (rightly or wrongly) our business model is not to be a guinea pig for the Rent Reform Bill and the LA. We have assessed the risk considering what we have to put in monetary wise for this plus the potential future 2025 EPC changes and we have to take this stance to continue in this business with minimal risk.

I welcome other LL's opinions about their business plans with such a shift in legislation in 2024/2025 and what they are planning to do.

We only have the one flat that we rent out.  It was bought with the proceeds of an inheritance so we have never had a mortgage on it.  It seemed like a  prudent  investment for my aunt's kind gesture.

Looking at it purely from our point of view, this is our investment and we do not want to risk never being able to realise its monetary value.  We also have come to the point where we don't want to jump through ever smaller and more complicated hoops. Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.

I think that is a wise choice with only one property 👍

Yellowsub2000

The rental market conditions swing back and forth sometimes in favour of the LL and then it goes over in favour of the tenants.

with these reforms it will be in favour of the tenant and many LLs will be pulling their hair out losing money on their rentals property but they can’t sell or get them out

if they try raising the rent it will cost going to the ombudsman 

Yellowsub2000

The elephant in the room is that the ombudsman is free for tenants to contact and every time they do it will cost the LL.

LLs have to keep their tenants happy if not they will make life a living hell for the LL.

A tenant could keep contacting the ombudsman for silly little things the drawers are struck, the washing machine needs repair the fridge freezer has ice building up.


of course the main one these days is saying there is damp and mould building up.

this is huge leverage over a LL by contacting the ombudsman for free and it will cost the LL every time

Yellowsub2000

BungalowBel said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Chrysalis said:

ProDave said:

Yellowsub2000 said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Here’s a blog post about what the potential abolition of s21 means for landlords and renters alike. 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/section-21-abolition/

ending the abuse of “no fault”, or Section 21, evictions – a move that has wide support. Unscrupulous landlords have used the prospect of Section 21 to intimidate tenants into accepting substandard conditions – from damp and mould to other health hazards – or face losing their homes altogether.

There is a HUGE problem with the UK's old substandard housing stock.  I grew up as a child in an uninsulated 1930's house.  Condensation on the windows and in some places on the walls was considered normal, that was just how it was.  The laws of physics say moisture in the air, particularly if the house is cold, will condense on a cold surface.

Move on 50 years, cold damp and mouldy houses are no longer acceptable to tenants.  But physics has not changed, and most of these houses while they may have been "modernised" little if anything has been done to improve the fabric of the building so the same problems will be there.  You can keep on top of it by heating the property well enough and ventilating it properly and taking care with your lifestyle to minimise the moisture in the air.  But a poor tenant who can't afford to put the heating on much if at all, and who turns off the bathroom fan because it is too noisy and hangs the washing inside to dry because they can;t afford to use a tumble dryer etc will have damp issues in an old house.

These properties with mould and out of date insulation still exist, I  live in one of them, the windows are so bad, my landlord has been getting someone to pull out parts of the wooden frame that have rotted away too much and drill on new bits of wood in place, all that effort to avoid fitting PVC.

LLs dont need to sell because of this, because the EPC rules dont get actively enforced.

Only last week I pulled out some moss growing on the inside of my window.

And you put up with this state of affairs because..............

What are the reasons?

You seen the state of the rental market?

If I moved to another rental I am looking at an extra 30% minimal and a gamble on a new landlord, whilst this one is at least stable and have lived here for circa 17 years.

My sister's experience was she lived in nicer properties but had to move almost every year due to constant S21s.

Looking to move to somewhere i own, but the deposit demands are obscene.  Saving up for that.  Once I have the deposit I will buy somewhere.

Yes we know it well from a LL's perspective and for us and the changes with rent reform that are coming in 2024 means that any property that comes up for rent we will be very selective on our tenants and that means sadly those on UC and housing benefit go to the bottom of the pile, having had a very good relationship with the local council before we cannot take that chance in our new business plan.

Back to your situation so you feel you couldn't have an honest conversation with your LL about the issues in your property in fear they will S21 or pop rent up to cover the cost of repairs?

I do fear if I push hard on issues I will get a no fault eviction yes.

One summer I did try to negotiate rent, and I was cut off mid sentence, not even 5 seconds had passed with a "well you can leave by the date we gave you if you dont like it" which suggested if I carried on they would have made it official with a S21.

If I move somewhere more expensive, it just makes it take longer to buy somewhere as even more is going on rent and I risk been moved on very quickly.

However the banning of S21 does change this somewhat, as a LL wouldnt be able to move me on just because they felt like it.  Plus I would be able to raise issues more, however raising issues more does still risk the rent been increased further as a means to discourage me.

My first 10 years or so were no rent increases at all, during this time period I reported practically no problems.  At the time i moved in the windows were in better condition, boiler was working properly, pipes hadnt yet corroded.  I also was on very good terms with my LL, I had found him numerous tenants, and even prevented neighbours from making complaints.

Then someone threw a brick threw my window, I think someone drunk exiting the park next to my home, the landlords manager wanted me to pay for it, which I felt was totally unreasonable, so they paid for it.  The following summer, my first rent increase.

Only one summer since then rent was frozen, the rest were on average double inflation.

Since then I have had issues that would be difficult to ignore. So were reported.

1 - Ceiling collapsed in kitchen flooding my kitchen, lost about £100 orth of stuff which I had to pay for.  Took them circa 3 months to remedy, whilst I had to carry on paying full rent, and lost power to flat twice. 

2 - Boiler has broken down dozens of times.

3 - Water leaks mostly in bathroom, which flooded the bathroom. 

The windows I actually didnt report, what happened there is my area is now selective licensing, the council has stated its for anti social tenants, but my LL started panicking and decide to improve the appearance of his properties, someone was sent round to work on the windows, and then it was reported to me was a large gap in one of the pieces of glass I hadnt noticed, the frame had rotted away and it slid down.  This then brought my attention to it, and I seen they were really rotting away.  Lots of wood dust.  There was a Frankenstein job done on the windows to improve them, but my bedroom one's are not yet done.  Handy man claims he advised for PVC to be fitted and was overruled.

However recently I checked up when Osborne did those nonsensical S24 changes.   since it was mentioned in discussions it suddenly entered my mind was, it around when my rent started going up.

Turns out the law was changed in 2015, by coincidence around the time my rent started shooting up, so I think me reporting that brick through the window was just coincidental.

In terms of my relationship with my LL, I have his direct number, tenants no longer get it, he has massively expanded his property empire, has an entire office full of staff now, if I do ring him, its a quick "I am busy ring the office".  One occasion he did step in when it was obvious his staff were been really stupid though.  Another occasion I had left my keys 100s of miles away and was a Sunday, he answered and told the security guard at his offices to let me in and no fees for it. So I do expect if there was a proper rational conversation, things would be better, but he has moved on from talking to people like me directly.

I still remember the day I went to collect the keys for this flat on a Sunday, rang him, told him I was at his place, 20 minutes later rolls up in a sports car, gives me the keys and was off again.

--

Now on to a point I noticed you raised in regards to your discrimination of tenants.  Why would you put UC tenants at the bottom of the pile because of the reform? S21 isnt required for eviction on non payment of rent, S8 exists for that, and it would be wrong to assume anyone on UC is more likely to break the terms of your tenancy agreement, legally thats actually discrimination and will be against the law post the reform, so a LL you need to be aware of that.

I have been with my LL across 2 properties for 19 years, for 5 of those years I was on housing benefits, it didnt make me a bad tenant.  So your comment seems to indicate a form of reprisal rather than a rational understanding of what the reform is.

Therefore we will be selling within the next two years.  Hopefully our tenants will buy it, but if they don't want to or can't, then reluctantly we will have to evict them.

You won’t be able to that’s the point.

You could try selling with a tenant in but that’s going to be very hard