Storage Heaters - landlord replacing with 2Kw panel heaters - Will this be more expensive?

itbird_2

i have a 3 bed ground floor flat, we have storage heaters and immersion for hot water on a Economy 7 tariff, its always cold except in the bedrooms at 2am ! Landlord has decided to replace the storage heater with 2kw panel heaters, which is good as we can have heat when we want it - early evenings rather than 2am. 

 i have asked the question as to what we do about the tariff and they have said that the heaters will be wired to the normal supply using the daytime rate and the hot water will remain on the E7 tariff.  You cant have two tariffs can you ? its either E7(higher day/ low night rate) or a normal tariff( Day/night use same charge per unit )

so i have to choose dont i ?

 either stay on the E7 purely for the hotwater or go on to the normal tariff so hot water will heat for however long overnight but i will pay the lower day time rate when i use electricity in the day (currently paying 48 per unit day and 17p per unit night .  my usage for last year in terms of units were 4700 night and 3100 day .

Totally confused as i cant make a comparison as the heaters are using the electricity for the full 7 hours i presume - dont think i will have the panel heaters on 7 hours in the day for sure - has anyone got any advice please ?

oh and i only use the hot water for washing up - we have an electric shower (uses cold water) - have the occasional bath - once a week maybe so not relying on the boiler for all our hot water needs - thank you for reading and any advice, am very grateful 

molerat

Generally speaking panel heaters cost more to run than storage heaters but of course it all depends on your usage pattern. E7 usually needs at least 30% use at night to make it viable.  Does your water tank have 2 heaters, one at the top and one at the bottom ?

itbird_2

molerat said:

Generally speaking panel heaters cost more to run than storage heaters but of course it all depends on your usage pattern. E7 usually needs at least 30% use at night to make it viable.  Does your water tank have 2 heaters, one at the top and one at the bottom ?

it has - i use the boost very very rarely now that i worked out how much it was costing 

InvertedVee

You'll be significantly better off changing to a standard tariff. Using day rate electricity on an E7 tariff is the most expensive way to heat a home.

If the landlord had replaced the storage heaters with efficient ones that retain their heat longer, it would have been better and cheaper for you to run. Panel heaters are far cheaper for your landlord to install but will cost you more. 

We've read similar things in a few recent threads.

itbird_2

InvertedVee said:

You'll be significantly better off changing to a standard tariff. Using day rate electricity on an E7 tariff is the most expensive way to heat a home.

If the landlord had replaced the storage heaters with efficient ones that retain their heat longer, it would have been better and cheaper for you to run. Panel heaters are far cheaper for your landlord to install but will cost you more. 

We've read similar things in a few recent threads.

ummm i am really hesitant to let them install them to be honest - dont know what to do which will be  is best for me and my bank account 

Swipe

The best would be to keep the storage heaters and buy a cheap convector heater if you are cold at 2am and put it on a timer for a couple of hours when cheap rate kicks in.

markin

If you buy and install modern night heaters Yourself they could pay for themselves in just a year or 2, Don't let them install anything but storage heaters.

Alnat1

If the immersion isn't used for the shower then only switch it on when you want a bath. Boil a kettle to wash up, mop floors etc.

BUFF

what you really want is high heat retention storage heaters (Dimplex Quantum or similar) but that would cost the landlord a lot more to install & he isn't the one that has to pay the higher running costs of the panel rads...

Scot_39

From the bill payers perspective - I suspect I would be looking to fit modern HHR NSH panels (Elnur, Dimplex etc) or slightly cheaper NSH like Creda TSRE (sister co of Dimplex) or similar - at least in some key locations - most / longest used rooms.

These HHR and other high insulation fan assisted NSH - largely stop that peak heat output during off-peak charging problem. Which is why many don't like old traditional NSH in bedrooms. (I never use heating in the bedroom and still use just a summer 4.5 tog quilt in the middle of winter and grew up in a house with 1 coal fire and single glazed drafty sash windows... the heat would keep me awake)

But HHR panels are much more expensive than the cheapest standard panel heaters (c£500-1000 depending on model and size - vs potentially sub £100 for a 2kW panel heater - but even these can run into hundreds if fancier models). Has LL given any model info? 

And other modern NSH models - often only £100-200 cheaper than the same suppliers HHRs.

Keeping just some NSH as HHR NSH panels could make a big difference - to your bill - depending on how you and yours use the property - and the LL too - depending on his plans.  But if say LR and 2 of 3 bedrooms in use most of the time etc- that becomes more of a problem.

I suspect flat rate might work out better if all NSH are replaced.

And if you are already having to fall back on day rate heating - e.g. plug in or non nsh panels - as your leaky (going by the peak at 2am comment) old NSH run out of heat in evenings - then it may already be borderline. 

And switching to SR - would actually reduce that portion of the bills - in fact all of your day usage - especially if on an aggressive split (high day / cheap night - some are like 53/6 - others more like 45/15 etc). 

Or you could alternatively be - overheating in night/early AM - to stay warm all day. Arguably wasting (*) some of that off peak input.

But without knowing your day / night usage splits - and day / night tariff split - it is difficult to comment on best tariff.

Do you have long term  day / night peak / offpeak usage records / past electric usage from bills.

If so - try to separate out heating from hot water - use a summer bill as a guide - as the off-peak would typically be mainly hot water.

Factor that out over a year cf your total off peak as an approximation for NSH off-peak usage.

Now work out new costs - based on most of that heating being at either E7 peak rate or flat rate.

And factor in the potential savings on day usage at single rate - not E7 higher peak day rate.

Remember you total energy might not change - unless you say cut out wasted heat like maybe (*)

You might need a supplier who will bill both your E7 registers at single rate - if do need to switch some still do this - if not online over the phone (Octopus from posts here certainly used to).

You may struggle to get landlords permission - to change actual physical meter / meter configuration itself - that some suppliers might demand - if that impacts his preferred heating solution.

As to

ummm i am really hesitant to let them install them to be honest - dont know what to do which will be  is best for me and my bank account 

As a tenant - I suspect ultimately you have limited say - and should proceed cautiously.

If you have a good long term relationship with a good landlord - they might be willing to come to a compromise though.  But it may not be a cost neutral one for you either way (leccy bills or rent level etc).

So firstly

Do the maths re your current splits and tariffs - to see where usage and E7 rates leave you now via the SR option.

Or supply numbers and region and someone here will help

Then consider your options - possibly to approach LL if looking like a significant annual cost change.

Mstty

Have you got a good long term relationship with the land lord and looking to stay for a number of years?

Landlords are not ogres you can approach them to resolve situations.

The heaters fitted are cheap and that is why the landlord has gone for them. They are expensive for you to run and next winter will cost you a great deal of money.

If you don't think you will be there long time use the cheaper spring and summer months to find another property ideally with gas central heating of highly efficient night time storage heaters mentioned above.