How can I find out details of someone’s death?

Undervalued

elsien said:

Pennylane said:

unforeseen said:

Spendless said:

I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong but AFAIK you can't be 'banned' from a funeral service. It might be requested that you don't attend (no such thing as inviting people either - you just make people aware) you can choose to take no notice. It's possible you might be asked to leave by someone, you may choose to do so in order not to cause a scene but if you refuse and the other person isn't going to get into a row  about it then I don't think there's a lot that  they can do about anyone being there, unless of course there is any legal restriction on you not being too near one of the people attending.


Is it possible the details will appear in the local newspaper? We didn't bother doing this with my Nan's recent death because so many of her friends and family  had already passed and the rest we knew how to contact anyway.  

Correct. Unless it is wholly held on private land then a funeral is considered a public event where anybody is free to attend

Even so, why would anybody want to go to a funeral where they already know they are not welcome?  It would be embarrassing and uncomfortable for everybody and would serve no useful purpose.  I have even read rare instances where people have come to blows at funerals. 

A local Vicar told me that he has on several occasions had to tell a family member that the rest of the family have asked that they do not attend a funeral.  

Because the deceased wanted me there, amd I wanted to say my goodbyes properly, and that took priority over what the estranged living relatives wanted. 

There was no ruckus, I managed to avoid speaking to them in the receiving line on the way out and went on my way without gate crashing the wake. 

It really is that simple.

https://www.yourfuneralchoice.com/can-you-stop-someone-from-attending-a-funeral/

The article you link contradicts itself!

Early on it says "You can’t stop someone from attending a funeral in the UK. There’s no legal way of banning someone because funerals take place in public places."

But further down on the same page it says "If the person didn’t leave a will behind then the next of kin is responsible for organising the funeral and deciding who should attend."

Only one or other of those quote can be right!

So for good measure the same article has one in the middle (my emphasis) "Funerals are generally public events."

lisyloo

Undervalued said:

lisyloo said:

Undervalued said:

Silvertabby said:

If the funeral hasn't taken place yet, then you may get  more information from a florist as they are less likely to be bound by data protection .  Google florists in your m-in-laws home town, then ring them to ask if they are doing the flowers for the funeral of Mrs X and, if yes, they should give the date and place.

You could then arrange to send your own flowers, if that is what you want.

I don't agree. They have a duty of confidentiality to their client and should not give out any information without their permission.

In reality if you rang up your average florist or walked in and said.

"Hi, I'm looking to buy flowers for my Aunty Betty who sadly passed (get's hankie out, sympathy all round). Sorry but my menopausal brain fog has got me (more sympathy) and I've left the details of the florist at home, do you happen to be doing the flowers for betty smith please?

I reckon 9 times out of 10 you'd get the info.

Personally I'm, going to turn up at a funeral I'm not welcome at and sit at the back quietly.
It's a public place (in England) unless held privately, so anyone asking me to leave will be told in a dignified way that it's a public place, but obviously that's a matter of personal choice.

Is it?

Many crematoriums are run by private companies (although others are run by local authorities). Whoever is responsible for paying for the funeral has surely hired the space for the duration of the service.

By your argument, if somebody hires a village hall for a private party you feel you have the right to go in a sit quietly at the back whether invited or not?

The fact that you may well be able to "blag" the information from the florist or other service provider, doesn't mean you have a right to do so!

Plenty of resources say funerals take place in public places and people cannot be stopped from attending (unless history of violence, restraining order)  e.g.

Can You Stop Someone Attending A Funeral? (yourfuneralchoice.com)

I'm not a lawyer but I would expect a private hire to be exactly that although in practice it may be difficult to get the police to attend unless there was a "breach of the peace" (I believe those words are important).

I absolutely agree with you about the florist, but whilst they have the same obligations I think it's way down their priority list than compared with say a doctors surgery or hospital. So I don't think it's an issue that is uppermost in a florists mind.
You are talking about principles, I'm talking about practicalities and it's quite easy to blag.

lisyloo

Yes there is legislation about public places 

"You can’t stop someone from attending a funeral in the UK. There’s no legal way of banning someone because funerals take place in public places."

Undervalued

lisyloo said:

Yes there is legislation about public places 

"You can’t stop someone from attending a funeral in the UK. There’s no legal way of banning someone because funerals take place in public places."

You may be right although I would be interested to see the specific legislation.

However your quote is from an article that contradicts itself several times. Other lines lifted from that article appear to suggest the opposite.

What about funerals that take place in, say, a college chapel or one on a military base etc? Can anybody demand access?

user1977

lisyloo said:

Yes there is legislation about public places 

"You can’t stop someone from attending a funeral in the UK. There’s no legal way of banning someone because funerals take place in public places."

A citation about the position in Scotland would be useful, particularly as I doubt the law would derive from the same source throughout the UK (although as with other things, it's possible the result is similar).

Spendless

Pennylane said:

Spendless said:

Pennylane said:

unforeseen said:

Spendless said:

I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong but AFAIK you can't be 'banned' from a funeral service. It might be requested that you don't attend (no such thing as inviting people either - you just make people aware) you can choose to take no notice. It's possible you might be asked to leave by someone, you may choose to do so in order not to cause a scene but if you refuse and the other person isn't going to get into a row  about it then I don't think there's a lot that  they can do about anyone being there, unless of course there is any legal restriction on you not being too near one of the people attending.


Is it possible the details will appear in the local newspaper? We didn't bother doing this with my Nan's recent death because so many of her friends and family  had already passed and the rest we knew how to contact anyway.  

Correct. Unless it is wholly held on private land then a funeral is considered a public event where anybody is free to attend

Even so, why would anybody want to go to a funeral where they already know they are not welcome?  It would be embarrassing and uncomfortable for everybody and would serve no useful purpose.  I have even read rare instances where people have come to blows at funerals. 

A local Vicar told me that he has on several occasions had to tell a family member that the rest of the family have asked that they do not attend a funeral.  

tbf we don't know that the rest of the family has asked that they don't attend the funeral. We  only know that MIL's partner (note that they haven't said husband/civil partner)  has said that the lady's son isn't welcome. If the partner is actually a boyfriend/co-habitee than the son is a closer relative than the partner is.

We also don't know the reason behind the 'ban'. 

I wouldn't attend if I thought something would 'kick off' but if one person not as closely related as I was to the person who passed said it, I might show my respects discreetly and at the back of the service regardless.  

Yes we do.  The OP says at the bottom of their first post that “it has been suggested that they all feel the same”.  

I read that in a different context that the rest of the family all feel the same about wanting to know what happened to the deceased, but don't want to ask. But without clarification from the OP - who knows.

I'd still sit quietly at the back of a funeral service so long as I considered it wouldn't cause a row at the place, I wouldn't attend the following wake though, I do think this is different. 

Sarahspangles

I think both these statements are true:  ‘Crematoria are public places’, and ‘The organiser of a funeral will let family and friends know the time and date of the funeral’.  

There have been recent instances of contentious cremations taking place outside normal opening hours, but as this thread starts with an OP who has recently lost a family member, I’ll leave that there.

It is the organiser’s responsibility to let people know arrangements and if they’re not in contact or there is hostility between them then some people may not be informed.  Possibly a third party will let the excluded person know about the death and the funeral but it’s then down to the parties to decide what they do and how they conduct themselves.

Funeral directors will aim to manage seating so that the immediate family mourners are seated near the front and to admit as many people as can safely be accommodated.

ellectrastar

Okay. 

To clear things up my mother-in-law and her partner were married. Upon hearing of her death from someone unrelated to the family my husband called a relative who advised no one wanted him at the funeral. The conversation was short and he had no opportunity to find out any details as to what had happened. The relationship between them had become a little fractured over the past couple of years. Again, I am not going into all the details as it is not relevant. Suffice to say they were on talking terms, and she was due to visit us in a couple of months time. He hadn't been abusive, or stolen from her. Purely trying to sort out some differences. 

Obviously due to the reaction of the relative that was called we do not know what has been said by the MIL's partner to the rest of the family. The partner may have been unhappy about the disagreement and decided that now the MIL has passed away that my husband should be punished. I don't know. 

We are not looking to attend the funeral as we do not want there to be any trouble and are happy to do our own thing, but at the least it may have been nice to know when it was, and to find out what happened to her. 

Pennylane

elsien said:

Pennylane said:

unforeseen said:

Spendless said:

I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong but AFAIK you can't be 'banned' from a funeral service. It might be requested that you don't attend (no such thing as inviting people either - you just make people aware) you can choose to take no notice. It's possible you might be asked to leave by someone, you may choose to do so in order not to cause a scene but if you refuse and the other person isn't going to get into a row  about it then I don't think there's a lot that  they can do about anyone being there, unless of course there is any legal restriction on you not being too near one of the people attending.


Is it possible the details will appear in the local newspaper? We didn't bother doing this with my Nan's recent death because so many of her friends and family  had already passed and the rest we knew how to contact anyway.  

Correct. Unless it is wholly held on private land then a funeral is considered a public event where anybody is free to attend

Even so, why would anybody want to go to a funeral where they already know they are not welcome?  It would be embarrassing and uncomfortable for everybody and would serve no useful purpose.  I have even read rare instances where people have come to blows at funerals. 

A local Vicar told me that he has on several occasions had to tell a family member that the rest of the family have asked that they do not attend a funeral.  

Because the deceased wanted me there, amd I wanted to say my goodbyes properly, and that took priority over what the estranged living relatives wanted. 

There was no ruckus, I managed to avoid speaking to them in the receiving line on the way out and went on my way without gate crashing the wake. 

It really is that simple.

https://www.yourfuneralchoice.com/can-you-stop-someone-from-attending-a-funeral/

Thanks for posting that.  It is pretty much what I did (as Executor) to ensure a family member and their spouse did not attend our family funeral.  Didn’t announce the death and put announcement in local paper afterwards to say private funeral had been held.  They never got in touch for years beforehand (despite living just 10 minutes drive away) and after the death never got in touch either.

The rest of the family said they did not want them there and I did not want to go against their wishes in case they said “if they are going then we are not.”   They have never put any flowers on the grave as I visit regularly.  

tooldle

ellectrastar said:

Okay. 

To clear things up my mother-in-law and her partner were married. Upon hearing of her death from someone unrelated to the family my husband called a relative who advised no one wanted him at the funeral. The conversation was short and he had no opportunity to find out any details as to what had happened. The relationship between them had become a little fractured over the past couple of years. Again, I am not going into all the details as it is not relevant. Suffice to say they were on talking terms, and she was due to visit us in a couple of months time. He hadn't been abusive, or stolen from her. Purely trying to sort out some differences. 

Obviously due to the reaction of the relative that was called we do not know what has been said by the MIL's partner to the rest of the family. The partner may have been unhappy about the disagreement and decided that now the MIL has passed away that my husband should be punished. I don't know. 

We are not looking to attend the funeral as we do not want there to be any trouble and are happy to do our own thing, but at the least it may have been nice to know when it was, and to find out what happened to her. 

Would the same relative answer your husband’s questions, if he makes it clear that he is seeking only some detail / clarifications?