Rights of consumer

born_again

Dewdrops1420 said:

If you type landscaper fined in google you will get many examples.May be they won’t pay like how you say but atleast court is ordering fines which definitely is a positive thing.

I need a fix or a refund and citizens advice told me it’s possible.

Small claims courts do not fine people. That is a totally different situation to fines dished out by Magistrates courts. 

People are not saying "Do Not" take it forward. Just tempering your expectations. You may win in SCC, but end up getting nothing, as the landscaper has nothing to pay you with.

Yes you may have a right to fix or refund. But you have to remember if the other party does not engage with you & then goes bust.  You may get nothing other than a further bill to pay.

TBH.
The whole patio needs lifting & laying again to ensure it is sloping away from house. You can see why it is puddling on the old flags, as the new ones have been laid to slope away from house. You then have the issue of the drainage in pic 3 not allowing water to flow away.

Searching landscaper fined brings up such as:

 A COMPANY has been fined almost £1000 for refusing to give police the name of a driver suspected of committing an offence.

 A landscaper who illegally dumped garden waste and paving slabs in Thetford Forest must pay more than £2,800, after an eagle-eyed council

 A company specialising in landscaping and garden machinery has been fined following an incident where a worker suffered head injuries on

Landscaping and driveways business fined for illegal advertising using a trailer

Other have been brought by Trading Standards.

But none of these cover your situation.

oldernonethewiser

Dewdrops1420 said:

oldernonethewiser said:

If Citizens Advice has told you it is possible then go back to them and get them to help you work out what you can do, and what a positive result will look like.

As people have posted here, you might win the legal argument but you may never get any refund or a fix from the original landscaper.

What’s your personal opinion here?

My personal opinion is you need to gather the facts.

How you engaged the landscaper, what you requested, what they delivered and what, if any, evidence shows that they failed to deliver what they said they would.

Leave out any emotive stuff about children being unable to leave the house and attempting to ruin a business through social media.

Dewdrops1420

Can bailiffs not recover money from them incase they never fix our issue and court ask them to pay the refund?

oldernonethewiser

Dewdrops1420 said:

Can bailiffs not recover money from them incase they never fix our issue and court ask them to pay the refund?

The court may find against a company but if, as already mentioned by others, that company ceases to trade then there can be no money to seize.

Dewdrops1420

oldernonethewiser said:

Dewdrops1420 said:

Can bailiffs not recover money from them incase they never fix our issue and court ask them to pay the refund?

The court may find against a company but if, as already mentioned by others, that company ceases to trade then there can be no money to seize.

So should I complain against the people involved than the company? 

theonlywayisup

Dewdrops1420 said:

theonlywayisup said:

Dewdrops1420 said:

“We have just carried out a landscaping project for a consumer which has not gone to plan, leaving us in a situation where we cannot even put it back to what it was. The consumer wants a full refund, but whilst we agree that the result is not what was contracted for, we don’t think it is as bad as the consumer is making out. What would be a reasonable resolution for the consumer in these circumstances?”

Try searching with this as the other one is different article. This site won’t allow me to paste it.

I don't see anything in that article that will help you. Even if it did you don't seem to understand our legal process.  You will not win and get your money back, it doesn't work like that. 

If I am honest, your responses are a bit like pulling teeth.  Good luck with whatever you decide.  You are going to need it. 

So what you are suggesting I should keep quiet and not even try going behind that cheater landscaper? 

Many of the responses are like that here which makes me wonder if landscapers association is writing replies. 

That is twice now you have suggested that I am telling you to keep quiet.

You aren't reading my responses, or if you are, you are not understanding them.

Of course, I may be a landscaper - I am currently doing my own patio as it happens - does that make me biased?

If this were me (and it wouldn't be as I would not have engaged the person you engaged) then I would be attempting some free damage limitation.  I would gather my evidence as to what was contracted and what was delivered.  I would add a comprehensive list as to how much it would cost to rectify the current situation and I would include at least two quotes showing the cost of this works.  I would send this to the first landscaper with a requirement that I would like him to come back and rectify initially and if he failed I would engage one of the quoted landscapers and pursue him for the cost.  Depending on his response I would likely send him an LBA.  BUT I am wise enough to know that it I would not be taking it any further.  I would hope that he doesn't know that. 

Dewdrops1420

theonlywayisup said:

Dewdrops1420 said:

theonlywayisup said:

Dewdrops1420 said:

“We have just carried out a landscaping project for a consumer which has not gone to plan, leaving us in a situation where we cannot even put it back to what it was. The consumer wants a full refund, but whilst we agree that the result is not what was contracted for, we don’t think it is as bad as the consumer is making out. What would be a reasonable resolution for the consumer in these circumstances?”

Try searching with this as the other one is different article. This site won’t allow me to paste it.

I don't see anything in that article that will help you. Even if it did you don't seem to understand our legal process.  You will not win and get your money back, it doesn't work like that. 

If I am honest, your responses are a bit like pulling teeth.  Good luck with whatever you decide.  You are going to need it. 

So what you are suggesting I should keep quiet and not even try going behind that cheater landscaper? 

Many of the responses are like that here which makes me wonder if landscapers association is writing replies. 

That is twice now you have suggested that I am telling you to keep quiet.

You aren't reading my responses, or if you are, you are not understanding them.

Of course, I may be a landscaper - I am currently doing my own patio as it happens - does that make me biased?

If this were me (and it wouldn't be as I would not have engaged the person you engaged) then I would be attempting some free damage limitation.  I would gather my evidence as to what was contracted and what was delivered.  I would add a comprehensive list as to how much it would cost to rectify the current situation and I would include at least two quotes showing the cost of this works.  I would send this to the first landscaper with a requirement that I would like him to come back and rectify initially and if he failed I would engage one of the quoted landscapers and pursue him for the cost.  Depending on his response I would likely send him an LBA.  BUT I am wise enough to know that it I would not be taking it any further.  I would hope that he doesn't know that. 

Ok thanks!

but what u mean by LBA?

tightauldgit

Dewdrops1420 said:

tightauldgit said:

Dewdrops1420 said:

This is similar to our case and it looks like we will be favoured. Citizens advice never told me it’s difficult like how here people say.
”
Circumstancesoutsideofourcontrol “article in disputeresolutionombudsman

I can’t paste link here so mentioned the article above

That article sounds nothing like your claim - it's talking about where work is impacted by things like bad weather. I don't see how it applies to your situation at all.  

No it’s written about the advice to the trader.m which is favourable to us.The bad weather mentioned is about long projects 

I think you are talking about a different article than the one found by following what you posted. 

tightauldgit

Dewdrops1420 said:

If you type landscaper fined in google you will get many examples.May be they won’t pay like how you say but atleast court is ordering fines which definitely is a positive thing.

I need a fix or a refund and citizens advice told me it’s possible.

A fine will not result from your civil action in small claims court against a contractor. As has been explained to you more than once now that's not how our court system works. 

It's absolutely possible that you get a fix or a (partial) refund, but you will have to make the case and convince a court of that which is why you need to make sure your case is as strong as it can be. If you go in assuming that you will win and don't have to make a strong case, then you won't.

And as has been explained, even if the court orders it you will still have to enforce the order, which can be difficult. 

CA will absolutely advise you of what you can do to pursue the claim, as have we. But you need to be aware of the risks as well. 

tightauldgit

Dewdrops1420 said:

Can bailiffs not recover money from them incase they never fix our issue and court ask them to pay the refund?

Bailiffs can certainly make efforts to recover the money but they cannot take what the business doesn't have. Not to mention that if the business folds then there's nothing to enforce the debt against. 

It's incredibly easy for Smith's Landscapers Ltd to cease trading and the same people to open up tomorrow as Cowboy Builders Ltd (Trading as Smith Landscapers). 

That's not to say you shouldn't try, it's simply saying that you need to weigh up the risk. A first step would be to download the company's accounts and see if they have assets to cover the debt, if not then you are probably not going to be able to enforce anything. I believe you said they haven't filed accounts though, which would also lead me to think that they don't intend to keep this Ltd company trading in the long term and wouldn't think twice about striking it off and re-opening. 

Certainly you can and should send a letter before action to the landscaper - although if he's really as incompetent as you say, do you actually want him to lift the patio and relay it to fix the problem? Because that's the legal remedy you are entitled to.